The Great Corporate Exodus & What Lies Beyond w/Lee Ann Pepper

Brett Trainor (00:00.718)
Do you ever wonder what happened to your friends from high school? I mean you were so close. You laughed together, you cried together, you shared some of the best years of your lives together. And yet, somehow through life, you just lost touch. Now it's time to relive those moments once again. Introducing the podcast that takes you back in time to the place where it all began.

This is Class Reunion. We're bringing you all the gossip, secrets, and scandals from your high school days that you won't want to miss. Join us as we catch up with old classmates and dive into the wildest stories from our high school days. From those legendary parties to the infamous cliques, we're spilling all the tea on who's who and what really went down. So grab a seat, turn your volume up, and get ready for a trip down memory lane. Class Reunion, the podcast that reunites us all.

Brett Trainor (00:55.342)
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Class Reunion. This one is going to be important for anybody in GenX who is still working. So stay tuned and listen to my next guest. He's going to have some valuable insights on what our next journey is for our final stretch of happiness. So welcome Brett Trainor from Wheaton, Illinois. Hey Leanne, great to be here. I'm super excited. I love this podcast. I know I told you I just recently discovered it when we connected, but now I've been bingeing your episodes. So.

Super thrilled to be honest, I think it's a great idea. Thank you. And right back at you, I've been binging yours as well. And we can start right there of how this is going to go, which is to encourage people that there is a whole life outside of corporate. And we're going to get into that. But the fact that Brett and I connected on social media and didn't know each other and are like spirit animals from our conversation of what we endured in corporate America shows you that there is an alternative. And

Whether it's finding something else in corporate America, but under your terms or getting out completely. That's what today's discussion is all about. And an even stranger connection is I was mentioning to Brett like, Oh, I have a lot of friends in Wheaton because a lot of the grow bites from my high school went to Chicago. And I said, gosh, on your LinkedIn, it shows that, you know, this Phil Hallier and I know that's.

you know, maybe a weird name because everyone has a connection from LinkedIn. And you said. He was my former neighbor before he moved and one of the first guests on the podcast four years ago. So yeah, it's wild. Just wild. I mean, that's why this is so cool to open up this discussion for everybody because whether you like social media or not, the connections we use LinkedIn and we'll get into that and it's still a viable resource, but.

the personal connections and getting down to that kind of conversation, I probably would have connected with you, let's just even say five years ago, and would have never gone down that path of conversation. And now all of a sudden, it's like, my gosh, I can't believe you knew Phil and I can go to him and have a con... It's just, it's a much greater tool to speak with people and have a conversation beyond what we write on LinkedIn.

Brett Trainor (03:17.134)
because it's really a professional resume when you get down to it. To me, it's like a walking resume and there's nothing of me behind it. It's my education, my work experience, what I'm looking for, what I've accomplished. It's shouting out to coworkers. And again, nothing is wrong with that, but it's not modern to today for our generation. Let's dive into that. So I reached out to you because GenX is in a tricky spot right now.

If you've had a miracle situation where you've been able to retire, great. And I do know a lot of people who have and still want to find a purpose, right? Even, even after that downfall of money, but many of us are still working and we're in that corporate America cycle of feeling so scared to make a change. We all talk about the golden handcuffs. You get a 401k, you get insurance.

We have our parents in the background saying, oh my gosh, you have a family to feed. We have spouses. You know, a lot of people, it's the fear factor in the wrong way of like, you can't get out. There's, there's no way you're almost done. You got to stick it out. And so you live with that and you don't make a change and you're either in unhappy in corporate America or you've been laid off and you now have to get another job. And I just want to pause and say what Brett is doing is to.

give you a foundation for discovering what you want to do to make you happy that fits in your next opportunity from here on out. Am I saying that correctly? Because I just, I don't want to undermine what you're doing, but you have this passion to help GenX people find something different. Yeah. Opening up the possibilities, right? It mean just to go back a half second with, you know, you and I are on a podcast together.

Right. I think you may even see me on TikTok or vice versa that, you know, four and a half years ago, this never would have been, you have a podcast and on TikTok and that's your great social channel. You're like, what, what world are we living in that this is, is happening? But that's what I've kind of learned of the possibilities and the term 2 .0. What's the next, you know, life's version for you.

Brett Trainor (05:32.462)
And it was, you know, at the end of my corporate career, and it was my wife that said, what the hell is the matter with you? Right? And we may have talked about this before, but everything on the surface was fine, right? It was a good, well -paying job. I liked, you know, the people I was working with for the most part. And it just, but something was, wasn't, it was just not there. And hindsight's always 20 -20. And looking back, it was, you know, I was just done climbing the corporate ladder.

And what the hell am I doing? Right? Where am I going? What is it? Am I going to do this for the next 20 years or 15? And just said no. And yeah, that started the path out of corporate. Didn't have a plan, which I don't recommend anybody have a plan. Right? Build a bridge. You have these different things. Yeah, I like build a bridge. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so it's just, once you get to the other side in which you're there now, it's kind of amazing. It's still hard work.

It's different, but it's your time and your effort going towards your thing, not the corporate machine or the shareholders or those other things that we're conditioned since the age of 18 or 20. That's just what you do. So. And I think that there's this freeze factor, which I was talking about earlier too with you, which is these are conversations that everyone has, right? You catch up with friends, you're at a dinner party, you talk about how much you hate your job, but.

to go from that, to even build the bridge, right, to an exit path is something so scary. And where I am confused is we are this generation that we bragged about being feral kids that knew what they were doing, did everything on their own, looked things up, navigated without a map. We adapted to different forms of music from vinyl to CDs to, you know, streaming services. We all have Spotify or something like that now.

We managed to do all of these incredible shifts as the world threw new things at us without missing a beat. And yet we're afraid to move forward in our own lives to make ourselves happy. And I'm speaking for myself, believe me, this was, I'm here with Brett now, but it was a journey for me to get past the naysayers and people that were not comfortable with me saying, oh, I'm going to get out of IT. But we are that.

Brett Trainor (07:54.35)
person and I just feel like we all have one more fight in us and why not make it be something that's on our terms that we enjoy and balance the last half with family time and trips and in just realizing that all those years you gave to corporate America, I didn't want to.

just shit on corporate America, but I do. Okay, good. They don't care. Like I look back and like you said, hindsight 2020. I look back at all the sacrifices I made in all the planes that I got on at the last minute and meetings I had at the last minute. And I mean, I was gone every week. And you do all of that. And you're like, okay, so I'm still not valued.

Right. I'm still not valued. So what am I doing? How come I'm not valuing myself and my time? And I will say, I think COVID for worse or for better, enlightened us in that thought process. Like it really did make us stop and think about, wow, I can go to games and I can do things that I can work from Tennessee in an Airbnb and things still get done and I'm happier. And I'll share a story. I went to Easter dinner in the neighborhood.

And I'm not making what I did at all. But the woman said to me, she pulled me aside and she said, you look happy. She said, I don't know what it is, but you look really happy. Who says that unless they're feeling that from you? And I was like, okay, then I'm going to keep going on this path because that is ultimately what it's all about. So let's talk about the wonderful world of ageism. Where do we start with it? Yeah. Um,

Exactly. I didn't realize. Now, I've been out for four years, right? But starting to do some of that research and I probably spent too much time looking at the current state of corporate America. But it's becoming clearer and clearer that corporate is going to replace you with younger, cheaper. Any opportunity they can, regardless of how much strategic and value that you can bring to it, which is still crazy to me. And I get it. I shouldn't be surprised living in it for so long. But it just seems like,

Brett Trainor (10:11.886)
every tactic that a corporation can hold or doing these days, right? Ageism, the drive promotions are now a thing. And obviously, the layoffs you've got going out there, the returned office mandates, the micromanagement, it just seems to all be piling on where, at least when I was going through it, it was one or two things that maybe have been a factor. But yeah, it's, I don't know. I mean, it just seems to be even more profit.

driven, shareholder driven than ever. And maybe it's just away from it and it just seems worse, but I get a sense from a lot of people, it is worse. It is worse and we're not done, you know, laying off. So when you had the first round after COVID, you kind of understood, right? You were like, okay, we were probably all running too fat and happy and we've got real estate we're not going back to. So, you know, those first cuts made sense. It's 2024 and it's still happening.

And when you talked about getting to the height of your career, first of all, C level is hard to hold onto even back 10 years ago, right? It's a turnover job. And so if you're not at that level and you're just that middle management or account executive or whatever, and you're at the high part of your pay scale, you're a negative. There's no way around it. You're not like, you go so far in your career.

to finally get that threshold of income and that offer that's like what you've always dreamt of, that's no longer anything that they want to hold onto. They don't see the value in it, it's money. Yeah, and again, maybe that's part of, I'm more of an optimist, right? I'm always looking for the half -pull and drive, but I do get sucked back into that corporate negatism just because of the nature of having conversations. I think there's...

three or four people in our community just last week that were laid off, right? I don't think they were expecting it, but it's just happening and the downs are there's no good side of ageism, but trying to find that next job, right? It's gonna be really hard. You're competing as 250 other people with fewer jobs and you're gonna have a higher price tag. So to me, again, looking for that half full, maybe this is if you were caught in those lifts, now is the time to go explore, right?

Brett Trainor (12:27.182)
other options, right, where it gives you the flexibility, the freedom, and it may be scary, but you're not stepping away from anything. You've been stepped away from it. Right? Corporate quit you versus you quit in corporate. And so now, now is the perfect time to, you know, it's just educate yourself. That's all I tell people. It doesn't cost you anything to educate, but just go take a look. Go take a look. And we're going to talk about what you're doing in a minute. But I told you on the phone, I would share.

one of my stories. And this was for me, the catalyst of like why I wasn't going to go back. You know, I'd had had jobs at Salesforce and it's a big company name. Like it's, it's a big deal to get into that company. And so when I had left and decided that wasn't a company for me, Salesforce is really big. I've shared with you that boomerang effect. They love, they call you boomerangs, you know, welcome back boomerang. And I was going through all of these interviews and it's time and effort.

on the candidate side as much as it is on the employee side that's hiring you. It's a lot to put together presentations and have four or five sets of interviews and be on a panel of four or five people and have them grill you. I'm used to it, but it's a lot. And so I finally was on this panel of all women, which I thought would be a bonus. I looked at all their LinkedIn profiles because I knew that they were much younger than me.

And I wanted to come in with guns blazing of like, I know all about you and I celebrate all the things you've done so far, five years in the force. And, and, and, and I know you're a big Heather McMahon fan who's a comedian that I love. And I went to go see her show and all that kind of stuff. Oh, you know, Heather McMahon. Yeah. Yes. I know how they're McMahon.

You think I'm bonding. I'm going out of my way to go in this, you know, younger generation. And I spent an hour of running the interview because nobody had an agenda. And at the very end, I said, any questions or concerns on having me move forward? I had already gotten approval from the hiring manager and this young girl, 23, said, yeah, I just would, I would really bone up on the products and what Salesforce has to offer.

Brett Trainor (14:48.013)
And if you're gonna be on the marketing side, that's what I would do is research our products.

I just told you my experience with Salesforce in the marketing department. I mean, it's like, if you're not even going to pay attention to me, I don't want to do this anymore. And I still suddenly started to realize I was that quota of companies feeling good that they've interviewed an older female with experience and they can check it off that there's no bias here, right? But the fact is, they're not going to hire me. It's the politics again, that we lived in and just

put up with because that's just what you did. You get your paycheck and you basically live your life around this job, right? And get workouts and do family stuff when you can if you're not traveling and these types of things. And it's, I don't think loyalty was ever a two -way street when I was there, but it's definitely not now. And yeah, I don't know the end game for these big corporates. They're...

This is one of them, right? I think you said the layoffs are continuing. They're accelerating. And we haven't even got to the AI layoffs, which will happen somewhere down the road. Because these big companies can't even figure out sales and marketing alignment or, you know, adopting the digital transformation from the 2000s. So they're way behind, but it's going to come, right? It's just going to keep reducing the number of jobs, you know, the boomer generation's hanging on longer because they definitely learning quick to do.

anything on their own. And then millennials are pushing and threatening to leave unless they get the promotions or the job advancements. So as Gen X, you know, it's cliche, but we're really kind of caught, even though we have the most experience and ideally set up for leadership, you know, we're getting squeezed out more and more just because of being in the middle, right? It's, I just don't see where the end game is a positive for very.

Brett Trainor (16:42.861)
of us in that role. So that is where your corporate escapee came about and it was such an organic thing that you started and you were overwhelmed with the response. So do you want to walk through like how you kind of opened the door for discussion of like where does GenX go once they're you know, just stuck in the world of corporate and don't feel like there's a way out? It was a slow build. Yeah. Yeah, it was definitely a slow build.

because I started playing with it about a year ago, just saying, there's got to be more people like me, right? I left, I was just burnt out, fed up, as you talked, I had my forest gump moment, which we can talk about. And, you know, just for about eight months, I was still doing, you know, which we're going to get into the consulting, then I moved into fractional leadership, and then uncovered a couple other revenue opportunities, but thought, man, how do we get more of Gen X out of corporate, right? And it was just slow, but.

get back to the TikTok, I was just in November decided to, I would mess around with it much to my three daughters' cringes of you're not gonna do what, Ted. But all right, they're like, fine, do it. And to your point, it hit a messaging resonated. And I think this weekend, I'll cross 22 ,000 followers that are all, I'd say 80 % are in the Gen X range on TikTok and just said yes, they're.

the message resonates with me and I think because of that I've had 200 plus calls now with folks who are just looking to get out. I wanted to learn, like where are you at in your journey? Where are you going? What are you struggling with? Because there was really weren't any tools or education to help us, you know, kind of make that transition, right? Unless you wanted to start a full blown company, which I don't.

find many people that do want to do that. So, didn't know there was options, don't know where to get started. And I don't know if I'm capable of doing it. You've been super successful in corporate for 25 or 30 years, you're more than capable. You survived all that, you can absolutely do this. So, it's been kind of a really quick rise, but it just tells me the frustration level of people that they're ready for something different.

Brett Trainor (19:00.013)
So two wonderful things that Brett did, and I'm gonna brag about you here for a minute, you had this huge influx and you're like, I can't individually solve everybody's problem, but collectively we could do some inspirational damage here, right? And so you created a Slack group that is authenticated. And I'm saying that just because I don't want people to think it's anybody on TikTok. It's people that have a LinkedIn profile that you've been able to at least,

verify that, you know, they do have work history and, and want to take this seriously. And I joined right away and why I mentioned LinkedIn again, I'm not dissing LinkedIn, but these were real conversations, no buzzwords, no trying to impress anybody. It's like, look, I have this many years of experience. I was laid off.

Is there any connection or skills or classes or anything outside of thinking outside of the box that I can do to find something and you have all different types of subjects in there for people to lessons learned or connections. But it's so much deeper than what's on LinkedIn. And you can feel that connection is authentic and compassionate and everyone's really trying to help each other out.

And it goes back to the Phil Hollier story. You really don't know who's on there. That actually may know somebody that you're right next door to that you can really pull together something beyond what's, you know, you're applying on LinkedIn, which can be also a black hole now. It's not what it used to be. So you have this community and you know, is there anything you want to add even about this, which I find funny that it's a Slack channel and I didn't go back to Salesforce, but we'll digress from that. But.

What have you had as successes from building that form for everybody? Slack was actually intentional because I had looked at a different type of community tool, but a lot of feedback is, I just don't want to log into another application or a web. Most folks in corporate or had Slack or are used to it, so it was an easy transition. When I started, I just wanted to collect folks. I had good conversations with people. I know we can help each other.

Brett Trainor (21:17.133)
but without anything, they were just kind of disappearing and you know how relationships go that there's some really good people. So I've had, you know what, let's start getting everybody together. And now what's happening is people are really starting to work together, right? Even organically through as they're connecting within the community. And the other thing that I have found and encourage people is even if you're both chief revenue officers or in marketing or technology work together,

in uncovering opportunities because unlike in corporate where you're competing for that promotion or if somebody gets something, it's zero sum game. Here it's abundance. There's still so much opportunity. And when people with like backgrounds work together, then you have to work together, share ideas. Maybe you have a project doesn't make it. It's been refreshing to see how that works versus.

the competitive, because even if you think about some of the networks, even when you are in corporate and outside, you're still jacking for position and doing those things. So, you know, I think refreshing is the right word that people are truly trying to help each other with Apple concept as we go through the process. So part of it is in this community is only a couple months old. So we're still trying to figure out how we can add the most value and connect. But.

Yeah, it's been some really good people. It goes to that old cliche that we should have taken heed to years ago, which is work hard, work smarter, not harder, which leads me to that word fractional, fractional jobs, because we've talked about it, we're familiar with it. But let's talk about it for those that haven't heard it, and may think of it as, you know, a part time or consulting, and why it's such a key word in looking for jobs in the market now. Yeah, no, I haven't.

And it's a relatively new term and people throw it around interchangeably with consulting others. And basically what it is, and some people will define it a little bit differently. So I'll give you the broader base, but basically you become a leader in a smaller company, but instead of full -time, it's part -time. And I like it's any leadership position I think applies. And you think enterprise, whatever you do in enterprise, you're heading up marketing, you're heading up sales.

Brett Trainor (23:33.677)
You know, it doesn't matter because these small businesses need this help. But if they wanted to hire somebody with our experience, they couldn't afford to do it. So now what they can do is hire you for basically a day a week or 10 hours a week and provide the strategy, the leadership. You become a part of that team. You basically just cut out all of the crap from corporate, right? The, the unessential meetings, the fire drills.

It's just not there and you help them build out that piece of it. And the beauty of what we can leverage with our 20 years of experience is these businesses are hungry for you to, you can even, I want to say get creative, the fractional is the easiest ones. It's just a day per week, per month. You charge your retainer so it's not even an hourly rate. And you sit on that team and provide that type of leadership. And there's obviously the consulting, but that's more of a fixed fee.

fixed duration, you're coming in to solve a problem for a company. Some people like that, but it's not as predictable as what a fractional job. There's interim, which is you come in into a company full time, but it's for a set amount of time. It could be three months, six months, whatever it is. Again, that's not appealing to me because it's just corporate for a shorter amount of time. Yeah. And the third or the other - It's still good, handcuffed.

Exactly. The other piece is now we're starting to see the opportunity to do more advisory work. I think the old days advise you with that order directors, but advisory is, hey, this business may not even be ready for a fractional yet, but they're starting to think about implementing a new technology or something. So you can work five or 10 hours a month with this business owner, providing that guidance or you may even be able to help them find the resource that they're looking for. So,

what I encourage folks, especially in corporate is look, if somebody's paying you to do a job, you're solving some sort of problem. Whether it's sales, you're looking for new customers, whatever it is, take that same approach with the problem you're solving and apply it to the small business world and meet the customer where they're at. So if they need advisory, if they need a fractional, if they need a project work, it's all tied to what you're focused on. But you and the business is going to get value, you're going to get a premium for your time.

Brett Trainor (25:51.597)
And again, you cut the crap of corporate outright, the overhead just goes away. And you're only doing the thing that corporates paying you to do. And now you get to do it exclusively. So hopefully I didn't confuse that for them, clear it up. No, you did. And it's also, I encourage you to join the LinkedIn group. There's two things we're going to post from this. But because you even show links, it's like a real thing. It's not like we're just saying you have to go out and hunt for it. There's plenty of links.

plenty of ways you can use that term to find it. And what's beautiful about it is not gonna go away. This isn't a trendy thing. Think about how we complain about corporate America. Well, guess what? I will say the pivot that they're doing in a positive, like you said, the glass half full, they're realizing that they need that talent and how can they fit it in their budget.

And it's a win -win for everybody. So you still need those folks out there that have held these types of positions in Ben and corporate America because they get it, right? But it's not going to be something where you feel every day that fear of being let go. It's a handshake between two people or like, we're a small business. We know we need this leadership. We just can't put it under the umbrella of corporate lifestyle or whatever.

And you're like thinking to yourself, yeah, heck yeah, because I can go for a walk in the afternoon or I can do something in the evening and work out like I never did. I'm not in the airport every day. So it's like a beautiful thing. It's a different way to embrace working for companies. I think. And if you want to even look at a couple of benefits I can share. The first one you talked about the relationship, right? So fractional, an employee, it's command and control, right?

They own you for lack of a better term, they're paying you salary, you're following whatever projects, initiatives, things they want you to do. It's just the nature. Fractional, it's more of a partnership, right? If you don't get along with the CEO or don't agree and it's not a good working environment, you don't have to keep working. Right? It's true. It's a partnership. And some of the other freelance stuff, it's more transactional, right? You're...

Brett Trainor (28:04.013)
in exchange for doing this service for you, you're going to pay me X. Again, it's not the same as being on the team, but you have a lot more control of it versus the employee side where it's basically we're going to tell you what to do. And the last thing I want to go back because I think where it helps people understand from the business, the small business side, why this makes so much sense and why it's not going away is we kind of mentioned that the small business owner wouldn't be able to afford

someone like us to come in full time so they have access to it. And unlike a full time position, right, this minimizes the risk. Most of that you can do it month to month or three month contracts, right, to do this type of work. So they're not locked in. A lot of the time I'll add the value and say, hey, if you're ready for full time, I'll help you find that right person. So we'll minimize the risk of that hire. Because if these businesses hire the wrong person, it's a 12 to 18 month mistake. And sometimes it can sink the business.

So, right, it's the win. It's gonna save them money. They're gonna get the experience and you're gonna minimize risk. So, are all business owners on board with this? No, but you wouldn't wanna work for the ones that aren't. But when you have that conversation, the light bulb goes off and they're like, okay, so this truly is the win -win, right, that everybody's getting what they want out of this thing. So, I think that's part of the hesitation with folks is do businesses really want, is this just a fad? It's not a fad, right? They're gonna be able to leverage.

we're uniquely positioned to have that experience to provide to these businesses. So that's why I'm so excited where this is going versus I think it would still in its early days and the sooner you get in, the more you have the tech of what you want to do. Exactly. And let's talk about the other thing we're going to do. So we've got the Slack group, but you're also allowing me to provide a download for the listeners. And it's not just a basic download of like,

really what do you want to do if you get outside of corporate America? Because when I looked at it myself, I'm answering these questions far different than I would have five years ago. And it's really making me think about my mental health, my physical health, my relationships. So much of that I would have answered differently while I was in the throngs of.

Brett Trainor (30:22.285)
raising a family and doing all these things, I would have thought the money was the end game, right? Or the title. And now I don't want the title or the responsibility. And so talk about how you decided to build that and what's in that PDF that I'm gonna leave for people to download. Yeah, no, thanks for mentioning it. It's just kind of a collection of tools that I started to build for myself and things that I wish I would have had when, to your point, when I exited, it was, you know what, I'm done walking away. Yeah.

I'll figure it out, which again, it worked out. But in hindsight, it didn't have to be that long of a learning curve or ramp up time. Yeah. And you're right. Because when I left, it's like, all right, I'm done with this. I just want to replace my income or make more money than what I was doing in corporate. Then it started hitting the time, the flexibility, the health benefits. Again, I would have said to your point in corporate or even the early days, my dad's.

Foo -foo type stuff, right? It's just it's nice to have but no, it's fundamentally changed the way I look at it with you know sleep and exercise and the mental health and all those things that I didn't ever ask how important it is but once two years into this journey and like guys Am I balanced am I still finding these right things and I still use a lot of these sheets today like on a quarterly basis just to say hey am I Still going in the right direction my working too many hours and I getting

you know, spending the time with the relationships that I want. And if folks out there are listening and that's not important to them, then you're not going to get value. But I'm shocked at the number of people that, you know, find and we're looking to find that balance, right? It's money is important. I never dismiss it, but flexibility and all those other things. So anyway, it's a collection of tools and little frameworks just to help you think through if you're still in corporate, where are you at?

What does that balanced scorecard look for you? And if it's this, here's what you're trading off. And if you're willing to make the trade, then you don't have to make a change. But if it's not in what you're looking at or what you want in the next five, 10, again, we talk about longevity. I'm planning on living hopefully another 30 plus healthy active years. What the hell am I going to do? It's not going to be required. And so I want to find that next thing that's going to keep me energized.

Brett Trainor (32:40.013)
And why are we suffering through the Sunday scaries? Why are we pushing through that Sunday where we're not enjoying football or any of that stuff? Cause you're like, God, I got a 7 a .m. meeting. I got to prepare for it or have to be sharp or whatever. And I'm not saying, you know, meetings are a bad thing, but so many aren't effective. And yet you're so beholden to that time capsule of your Google calendar that that a company creates for you and it does nothing.

but stir up anxiety that you don't even know is there because you're so accustomed to it. And resent. I don't know about you, but resent huge for me. Yes, yes. I remember my son was really little and I said, what do you want to be when you grow up? And he said, everybody knows I laugh at myself in my podcast, but he said not in sales because all you do is sit with the phone on your ear. And I was like mortified. I thought,

Oh my gosh, he must think I'm this powerhouse person who's doing all this stuff. Meanwhile, he was like, I don't want to be anything like my mom, who's on the phone all the time. They watch, they watch and they observe. And we don't even realize like we talk about all the kids being on their phone. But from a work perspective, back in the day, we weren't talking to friends or watching social media, but we were on zoom calls in the airport at the baseball game. We were we were still connected to these stupid meetings.

And our kids saw that. I mean, at least that's my perspective. It's like, they saw you wasting all this time dedicating to someone else. Yes. Yeah, it's funny. There was a story back, this must have been 15 years ago. My girls would have been between first grade, sixth grade, somewhere in that timeframe. And I got caught up in the layoff at that point. So I was actually home for an entire summer. For years, they talked about

how great that summer was. And I should have been my wake up call back then, but it wasn't. That I was around for that much time and all that time. So that still sticks with me now. And like I said, better late than never, right? They're all almost completely out of the house. But again, we get a whole 2 .0 version to build and you know, we get to hope for the last laugh out of all this.

Brett Trainor (35:02.061)
So where are your daughter's thoughts now? So let's talk about, cause they're, you know, they're trying to build their careers too and finished college and things like that. But like, are they seeing their opportunities through a new lens from what you're doing or are they still thinking they don't relate to the path you're on? Yeah, no, I think they do. So my two younger ones are in healthcare. So that's a little bit different corporate. They still got some of the...

the challenges, but one's a nurse and one's a PA. So they're, they're on site. There's really nothing to do, but they like the flexibility. That's part of what they're building is flexibility into their life. My oldest was just caught up in her first reduction in force, you know, this week. And so obviously she, I don't think she actually listens to the podcast, but she does see my TikTok. So she's looking at the future. So I think they see.

How do I build or design this with more flexibility than just the job running me? Which again, there's still not a ton of really good options, but it's getting better. But if you go in with eyes wide open, it'll give you a better shot of setting yourself up. When I was their age, it was just hard charge. How do I get that next promotion worth that next gig? You want to get on a plane? Absolutely. Let's go do whatever. And so I think they've seen...

awakening, if you will, of where the options are. So yeah, it's they tell me that they follow, I know they follow me on TikTok, but I know they don't listen to the whole thing. It's okay. I still don't think my family knows I have a podcast. So, I mean, it used to refer to my little show. So I know where you're coming from with it. My sister was like, I don't know, do my clicks matter? I don't know. I haven't clicked on any of them. I was like, okay. But I think it's,

What you're doing, like I said, I love the idea of this podcast and just having the fun, the conversations is been kind of the cornerstone of this, right? Cause when people say you have a podcast and not anymore, but back in the day they were like, yeah, four years now, believe it or not, it's 240 episodes in and I had no clue what I was doing. Some would probably argue I still don't have any clue what I'm doing, but I'm having fun. I get to have conversations with folks like you and.

Brett Trainor (37:20.013)
You know, we can share stories and educate others on, you know, don't do what we did or here's some things that are working. But again, five years, I couldn't imagine this. But now I can't imagine my life without doing this. So it's just, it's kind of crazy how things just move, right? As long as you're open to it. Being open is, that's a big part of it. Because if you're, if you're not ready to even open up your head to the discussion, you're going to get lost in the...

what ifs or I can't or you know that feeling forward is such a corporate term that we've all been using but it's the truth if you if you don't want to dabble in a couple failures here and there then enjoy enjoy your Sunday nights you know I I don't want to tell you but there's there's a community out there to support you that Brett's created there there is light at the end of the tunnel to navigate and pivot you know and

I just want to encourage our generation to realize that there is something more out there for you than corporate. And we talk about the young generation and, oh, they don't have jobs like we do. There's some beauty in taking heed of what they're doing. And they're working outside of the corporate world. And they're figuring out something beyond all of that. And...

So when we say, oh, they don't want to work, what they're saying is, yeah, I want to work really hard in this time period. And then I want to have my evening. And we never did that. And so that's not a bad thing to embrace at this time in our life. This is, this is the final stretch to happiness. As I keep saying, why are we allowing it to be in the golden handcuffs of corporate America? Yeah. The golden handcuffs used to mean you do what I say when I want you. And if you want to have to work at hours or.

weekend to get those projects done. You're right. It's just the next generation is like, no, you're not going to do that. I'm not doing it. In the early days, I was horrified. I'm like, well, you're not going anywhere. But now I'm like, what the hell? Why did we put up with it for that long? Just because of the promise of the potential promotion and those types of things. And the one thing that I still tie back, and again, is Gen X. I think...

Brett Trainor (39:36.365)
you and I may even talk about this. I was a latchet keyed kid, right? It was, both parents were working as early as third grade. I was coming home to an empty house. Right? Yep. Right. And nobody bailed us out of any kind of jams, right? It was basically the mandate was don't get seriously hurt and don't hurt anybody. If you guys are out playing, be home by dark, but go figure it out. And we did. We loved that. I guess most of us probably loved that freedom, which we didn't know at the time what it was, but.

get into that corporate box and you bet you think back early in your corporate career, it was, I can't believe this. Why can't we do this? Why can't we do this? And over the years, it just becomes like, eh, don't rock the boat. Don't make a mistake. I don't want to get fired. We can grow. But everything that we were raised on was kind of taken away. And now you've got a chance to go back into the wild, if you will, and take back. And I think part of that is finding that.

creating that it is back to our childhood in the sense of right that purpose. So it's just overcoming that initial, can I do this? You can absolutely do this. And the other thing I tell people is what you think if you're exiting corporate, which again have a plan, but if you're exited from corporate,

You think it's walking this tight rope between two skyscrapers. Actually, the tight ropes between, you know, is six inches off the ground. If you don't like it, if it's not for you, you don't find your path in there. You can always go back to corporate. It's not, you're not asking to sell the house and mortgage everything in order to do this, but try, just go test it. And what I'm seeing in a lot of, there's a lot of, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this, which is great. But the folks that are actually, I will do this are the ones that are,

knocking it out. They're going quickly because they're doing, right? The doers are being rewarded. So think back to your youth when you were doers all the time and just apply it. And I know it sounds super simple, but the opportunities are there for the folks that just want to go do it, right? You don't have to start Google or Facebook. You don't have to, if you want to, open a flower shop or a cafe. Absolutely. But...

Brett Trainor (41:44.397)
There's never been a better time to monetize your corporate experience. And it's okay if the first one doesn't work quite the way, you'll learn and you move on and you reposition it the next time. So that's my message. Everybody is education. Just look at the possibilities, test it. If you don't like it, no harm, no foul. And there'll be a place hopefully for you in corporate somewhere. You might have to work harder and harder to keep your placeholder there, but it's still going to be there. So.

And you're going to enjoy it a lot more than what we're doing now. I like the, the latch key revival. I think that's, that's so true. Like we need to go back to that feeling of our freedom and knowing we can get things done. So, so I love that. The corporate escapee, Brett trainer, fantastic conversation. I still think we'll probably loop back again, cause there's so much to uncover, but I will have the PDF. I will have the Slack group. You are here for all of us that are feeling this pain of what do we do next? So I applaud you.

And I know you're just at the tip of the iceberg of what is to be from all of this, but your group alone is, is fantastic. And I'm so, so grateful that you chose to, to move forward with it. It's how I met you and I'm very fortunate. So thank you very, very much. No, thank you. And I think I can all are welcome. Right. So that's the beauty. That's the curious.

Come on in, test it. Nobody's judging you. People will be supportive. As I tell people in the community, it's anonymous. So if you're worried about big brother spying that you're checking out something called the corpus, don't worry. We're not telling anybody that you're in there. So you're welcome. So because we've had a few members that have still employed by some really big companies that have secured their first couple of customers and are giving their notice. And I'm going to have them come on the podcast as well. Oh, great.

can't until they actually leave corporate. So my bigger point is it's okay if you're still in corporate, you just want to test it. This is exactly what we're here for. Thank you so much. Fantastic. Well, have a great weekend. I hope to be in Chicago and meet you personally, because there's so many people I know that are up that way. So we'd love to connect and have a great weekend on your own terms. You too, and enjoy Sundays. I do. Yes. Yes.

Brett Trainor (44:01.869)
Thanks for being on Class Reunion, I appreciate it. All right, friends, that's it for this episode of Class Reunion podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show, write us a review, and share this podcast with a friend. Until next time.