Unlocking Freedom: A Corporate Couple’s Escape (by monetizing their experience) w/ Ethan Bull

Brett Trainor (00:01.713)
Hey, Ethan, welcome to the podcast.

Ethan Bull (00:04.566)
Hey Brett, thank you for having me.

Brett Trainor (00:06.705)
No, my pleasure. And again, I've been looking to, it's been short. We didn't meet that long ago. So I appreciate the quick turnaround. I love the story. I love what you've built with your wife. And I think for our audience, it's gonna be a great example of what's possible, right? And sometimes people get tired of hearing my story or stories from this. So to have some of you able to share those, I definitely appreciate you. It takes in some time today. Awesome. So, all right, so let's start.

Let's start today. Give me a little bit, or the audience, a little bit about the business that you've built, who you're working with, and then I want to take you back in time to those last fateful days in corporate and kind of what started this journey to where you're at today. But I always like to start with where we're at and we'll work our way backwards.

Ethan Bull (00:55.634)
Yeah, so along with my wife, we run Pro Assisting, which is a fractional executive assistant service agency. We have about 30 assistants and about 60 clients across the country. We also run the Pro Assisting Academy that we started last year, and that is to kind of future proof career minded executive assistants through training, mentorship and coaching.

And we've been running this business since the middle of 2018 when we broke away from the corporate world and it's been quite a ride.

Brett Trainor (01:38.065)
Yeah, it's often, we're definitely going to get into it because I know you had a couple of different revenue streams there and curious how the business has pivoted since 2018. But let's go, and I also want to dig into, you know, having your wife as the co-owner, co-partner in this business and see how that's working for you. But yeah, so let's go back 20, maybe 2017. When were you hitting your breaking point and kind of walk the audience through, you know, what was, what...

Ethan Bull (01:54.41)
fun.

Brett Trainor (02:06.129)
what were those fateful days like? And maybe it was months and maybe it didn't happen that quickly. So just share with you kind of what your experience was.

Ethan Bull (02:13.962)
Well, Stephanie and I lived in New York City for 20 years. And then in 2015, our second son came along. So that's when we sold our condo in New York City, ditched our jobs, ditched our healthcare, and moved the family back to upstate New York where I'm from, a town outside of Rochester.

New York called Canandaigua. And I ended up working for the second largest employer in Rochester, Rochester regional health, supporting the CEO and was also director of admin services where I oversaw a team of about 80 assistants supporting about 250 healthcare executives throughout the network. It was a $2 billion plus.

revenue, nonprofit healthcare network with five hospitals, 16,000 employees. So that was a really big gig. And while I was doing that, Stephanie was home with the kids and in 2017, she got a call from a friend of ours and said, Hey, I know this Fortune 100 consultant. She travels the world. She needs great support, doesn't care where you are and doesn't need full time. Are you interested?

And that is at a point where Stephanie was a little bit of pulling her hair out, taking care of two young boys, wanting some adult interaction. Stephanie is definitely type A and needs to work. And so that was a great opportunity to. Dip her toe back into the workforce while still taking care of the kids. And, um, that kind of started our push.

to research, you know, the virtual assistant space, the executive assistant space, was there an opportunity for us? What does that look like? And we went down that road. And then in the beginning of 2018, I parted ways with my boss. After two years, it was time to move on. And

Ethan Bull (04:19.634)
You know, very generous severance package that, um, gave us a little bit of breathing space and pretty much the day following, um, that we started talking to ad agencies about building pro assisting, uh, and, and basically building a website that would differentiate us from the virtual assistant space.

you know, in that we are two executive assistants with high level EA experience in the six figure compensation range and fill ourselves up with clients. And what would happen beyond that? We didn't know. We had hopes, but we didn't know.

Brett Trainor (05:07.605)
Interesting. So it was sort of a plan. So the good thing is you get your feet wet, right, with your wife. You had a taste of what that virtual world. And so when you had left and you had the bit of a runway, which is helpful, was it rethinking what pro-assistently became today or was it really, hey, can we replace our income doing this? Where it's okay if it was none of the above. I'm just kind of curious where your heads were at that time.

Ethan Bull (05:34.078)
Well, given that there's two of us, my head was, yeah, I want to be even beyond where we are today, where Stephanie was probably more along the lines of no, let's just, let's just replace income and live a great happy life, which we're, thankfully we're doing. So it was a little bit of both. And she is always the one to kind of

put the guardrails on me and my ideas and my entrepreneurial spirit. So we're a great team in that respect. And as I said though, it was a hope that we would be able to attract clients for ourselves, which is an easier sell than selling a service with other providers. But over the years,

we've become really good at it. And, um, well, I would say that our model really hasn't changed much from what we identified pre-launch on based on our market research and how we wanted to fit in the marketplace, and that is still holding true today.

Brett Trainor (06:46.821)
Yeah, no, I love that. And again, the guardrails is great. My wife who's not in the business, but I kind of, maybe about a year ago, brought her in kind of more into the partnership with this thing. Because the one thing I found was, one thing with corporate, she knew the paycheck was coming every two weeks, knew we had benefits, didn't really care what I did for a job. I shouldn't say didn't care, but it didn't matter. She could go at her. When I went solo, it's like...

the complete unknown. So finally bringing her in and having quarterly business reviews with her and setting priorities and updating her and everything changed it. And she too is also my guardrail person. She's like, is this what you think or is this goal aspiration or what can we plan on? So yeah, it's good to have that in there. So thinking back now when you first got your, because one of the things we hear from folks in corporate all the time is that, well, how am I going to get my first client? Right.

thinking back, did you use your network? How did you, what was that process for you when you were first getting started looking for your first client outside of that corporate role?

Ethan Bull (07:57.122)
Well, we use a number of different tactics. We definitely leveraged our network and got a client that way. We leveraged LinkedIn and got a few clients that way initially. And we also leveraged an appointment setting service over three months.

Uh, it was the biggest financial decision that we had made in the business up until that point. I think it was spending $2,000 a month for five phone calls and we were locked in for three months. So it was a $6,000 spend for 15 phone calls.

And we ended up out of those 15 phone calls ended up landing, uh, two clients for me. Uh, one of them, uh, we parted ways with in. That was in December of 2018 and we parted ways with them in December of. 2020. One 2021. And the other client is still with us today.

Brett Trainor (09:05.307)
How awesome.

Ethan Bull (09:05.586)
So the return on that $6,000 is just unfathomable.

Brett Trainor (09:10.737)
Yeah, that's phenomenal. Did you do that early on or did you already have a couple of customers that made it a little less nerve wracking to spend that?

Ethan Bull (09:18.834)
It was all nerve wracking. It's all nerve wracking. And especially when you're starting out. But

I think it's smart to take targeted risk when you're starting your own business. And, you know, I've gone through this process with probably over a hundred executive assistants now, taking them through this process and doing exactly what you're advising people to do is to take your corporate experience and work for clients instead of bosses. And...

A couple of things that I always key in on with these executive assistants, uh, is healthcare and personal finances, your safety net. How, what's your runway? You use that term earlier. And so before you totally break free, you really want to have a plan, a path, um, and, and resources that.

can satisfy six to nine month runway and know where you're getting your healthcare. What we found is that the benefits of business ownership are huge, but you have to get to a certain size business to recognize and realize those benefits. So that is.

Something else that we're doing now, as we were talking before we hit record about the Pro Assisting Academy, is something that we're doing to focus on the executive assistants, career-minded executive assistants who really wanna future-proof themselves. And we look at it holistically, meaning a personal side of the ledger in combination with, where do you wanna go with your career?

Ethan Bull (11:15.762)
And does that include working for clients instead of bosses? Or does it just include getting a different role or expanding the role you're in or increasing your compensation or forming a better relationship with your principal? So that's kind of really, really interesting to me is to help others ask those questions.

because I really firmly believe that fractional support and services is a lifeboat to small and medium sized businesses because they have now the opportunity to right size their support needs and service needs.

Brett Trainor (11:57.642)
Yeah.

Brett Trainor (12:01.5)
Right?

Ethan Bull (12:06.734)
from the C-suite all the way down to IT and bookkeeping and executive assisting, as opposed to hiring full-time employees. And that gives great flexibility. First it was the internet wiping away the lines on the map in terms of being able to do work from other places. So,

Then it was the convergence of SAS products, software as a service, and, uh, work happening in the browser as opposed to software programs that run on either PC or Mac or an Android or iPhone. That doesn't matter anymore. So it is so much easier to take talent from the C-suite, from office operations and, and get the right amount.

and not have to make a bet on a big hire that can totally screw up your balance sheet.

Brett Trainor (12:58.665)
Yeah, you're speaking my language, man. It's just because you're not paying for all the overhead. And you know, tell folks you think about even your any level in corporate. I don't care. By 30 percent, if it's a good week is spent on what they hired you to do. Right. You get the fire drills. You've got unnecessary meetings, all those things. So if you're a small business, this is perfect. Right. You're going to get you're going to pay you as the.

you know, the solo business are going to get paid a premium because they're just paying for your expertise. And again, I think that's, we're slowly seeing that change. I'm in the middle of it, you're in the middle of it. We see the value, we see the businesses that are adopting this, but there's still a lot that are slow. Hell, we still got a lot of big companies that are trying to figure out how sales and marketing need to be aligned and or digital transformation that's coming. So I just think.

to your point, the small and mid-size, this is gonna be a game changer if they learn how to adopt this and quickly and find those right resources that are gonna help them grow that business. So the one thing I can't go by and without asking is, because I get it all the time, is from the insurance, did you guys just, the two questions, one, how do you pay for it? I'm like, well, cash flows got improved to pay for it. And then...

Did you guys just go through the private marketplace or insurance? How did you guys set up your personal insurance after corporate?

Ethan Bull (14:27.714)
Well, it's really interesting. We thought that was gonna be about a 15 or $1,700 monthly expense. And it was a concern because of the severance package I got, we got six months of healthcare. And so leading up to that, the end of that, it was, we launched the business in May of 2018 with one client leading up to...

the end of that six month period, you know, we're pushing numbers around and seeing what our runway was for the business. And it turned out that, you know, if we were going to have to pay 15 or $1,700 a month, it really sped up the clock and increased the risk profile of the business that we were.

Brett Trainor (15:12.977)
Yeah. Good point.

Ethan Bull (15:16.554)
launching. We had a representative from one of the healthcare companies come to our home and sit down and have a meeting with us. What is most important to note is that we are in New York state and every single state has different rules and different subsidy levels and it all plays a role.

And every state, the game, and I really do look at this as a game is different. And so she came in and sat down with us and in about an hour and a half, after going through all our numbers and looking, putting it in, we had it all in a spreadsheet and we're like, okay, so give us the bad news. And she said, well, look, you're, you don't have any income coming in right now from the business, your healthcare for a family four is going to be $58 a month.

And that's going to last for the next full year. And it's like you're working as entrepreneurs and, and New York state, um, taxes, cigarettes, and alcohol to help subsidize healthcare for people running their own business. You're falling under that. And then what we realized over the number of years is that New York state looks at your balance sheet, uh, for the previous three months.

Brett Trainor (16:12.244)
Okay

Ethan Bull (16:36.686)
to determine what subsidy level you're on. So they don't look at the full year. So service providers can invest in their website, in advertising, in other business expenses in that three month period to bring their EBITDA down and present that to New York State. And if you work your numbers properly, you can get.

really reasonable healthcare. Now the numbers get to a point where it doesn't make any sense and whatnot, but given that New York State only looks at that three month window and not the full year, for service providers or general contractors, or it creates a really interesting opportunity to get extremely reasonable healthcare.

Brett Trainor (17:19.399)
Yeah.

Ethan Bull (17:26.79)
And that we credit with the first three, four years of our business, in terms of really providing a lifeline to where we knew we could get great healthcare. But the sad part is, is it's not like that everywhere. And, um, I think not, not Democrat or Republican, I think from an entrepreneurial standpoint, if we, as a country had universal healthcare, it would free up a ton of.

entrepreneurial spirit.

Brett Trainor (17:57.801)
Yeah, no, I'm with you. And one thing it's, this is highlighting, I really need to dig it back into the insurance and probably do a full episode on this because I didn't go that path. And again, I've talked about it, I wish I would have had a better plan when I had left. Insurance, right, it was through, same thing. I had a runway of what the company was paying as part of the severance package, but then ended up the one thing my wife was adamant about is like, I'm not.

sacrificing. I want the big names. I want to make sure that we're fully covered and do these things. So I didn't even go down that path, which in hindsight I should have. But so anybody out there, it's a good point. State by state varies. It's super complex. But if you're in New York, man, there's a blueprint for you to at least do the research and go figure it out. But no, I appreciate you sharing that. That's a, again, it is still the largest expense.

At least in my business, it still is. So.

Bye.

Ethan Bull (18:57.035)
Yeah, no, it's huge important. I mean, we have two young kids too, so, or we did and now they're getting older, but yeah. And the other thing is, one more part about healthcare and then we can jump to another subject is that the...

From my understanding in New York State, if I'm talking to a representative Blue Cross Blue Shield, they have to show me the plans from Fidelis and from UnitedHealthcare. And that is what the ACA does, is that these folks who are representatives, and they're independent contractors, by the way, of these large healthcare companies, have to give you all the information. And a lot of it is around...

You know, exactly to your wife's point, am I going to be able to still go to my same doctor? Are they in plan? And so, but there are so many options out there that you're going to be able to find one that's going to fit your needs. And, um, and then you have to know when you're, when open enrollment is, but also when your own plan re-ups, because that's the timeframe. And you really, you need to be doing this research six months before.

Brett Trainor (19:59.529)
Bye.

Ethan Bull (20:13.814)
your plan re-up so you know the game that your state plays and what benefits that can give you or not and because it is a huge line item.

Brett Trainor (20:26.205)
Yeah, yeah, so good. I appreciate you sharing that. It's, yeah, like to your point, someday the country will take entrepreneurship seriously, especially if we're heading down to the number of solo businesses that we're expecting in the next three years. We're gonna have no choice at some point, but to address this. So, all right, so that was super helpful. Now back to your business, because one of the things, at least with my solo journey, I pivoted.

And I call it not really a pivot, I'm gonna do something else, chase shiny object, it's just kind of morphed over time as I've learned more and figured out where the revenue streams are and what I can do. So kind of take us through, hey, you've got a couple of clients now, you guys are maybe a capacity, not a capacity. What was the thinking of that? I mean, cause you started an academy, so kind of walk through the growth or the pivoting stage of your business that got you to where you're at today.

Ethan Bull (21:21.13)
Well, the Academy we started in 2023. And that was based off of the work we did on our book that was more folk client focused, but.

Brett Trainor (21:24.361)
Okay, so that's recent.

Ethan Bull (21:35.518)
You know, in this fractional space, we're fortunate in that the term executive assistant can mean many different things, can fill many different areas. If you put it on a guardrail, like we look at it as being a business partner, a chief of staff, project manager, assistant slash scheduler and personal assistant.

That's a wide breadth for a client of ours to leverage their assistant. And so that gives us a benefit of being more on the operations side, being more consistent in terms of wanting that support month in and month out and creating longer term relationships. So when Stephanie and I filled ourselves up with clients by probably the middle of 2019,

Ethan Bull (22:29.334)
The goal was to always keep new prospects coming in for solo reneur fractionals. It's a little harder. And so I have a lot of conversation with fractional C-suite executives around, okay, the goal is to fill you up with your three or four, maybe five clients that really satisfy you and, and meet your needs.

but you also don't want to turn off the spigot of new leads coming in. And so if you are a fractional COO, it might behoove you to make relationships with other fractional COOs that you know, like, and trust, and be able to create a smaller network where you can trade prospects based on each of your availability. And I think that's, you know,

our agency, if you will, we're basically like a talent agent for executive assistance. Um, you know, no one client has more than 3% of our revenue. And, and that provides a lot of security in terms of the losing clients and gaining clients and losing clients. When you are, when you only have three or four clients,

You know, there's a lot of risk in losing a client. So to mitigate that, having a network and being able to interact in that way and share prospects so everyone keeps their lights on, if you will, like the were open sign, uh, I think is really important and something everyone who's thinking about doing this should think about.

And we even encourage our own partner executive assistants to look for clients outside of their relationship with us, uh, and not rely solely on us to provide them with clients because everybody needs options. And if, if you're out on your own as a business owner, one thing that was surprising for us.

Brett Trainor (24:26.491)
Thank you.

Ethan Bull (24:32.402)
Especially being in the corporate world for 20 years and the grass always seems greener on the other side, but even when things are going awesome, when you're running your own business, what we've found is that there is an inherent level of stress that is just constant. It's just there and you get used to it over time and you can lean into it. But, um, understanding that and understanding where it's coming from.

I think is really important. And, and I think fractional, especially fractional independent contractors, especially at the C-suite level need to keep the lights on and keep that prospect. Spigot open. So they're continuing to have conversations and making referral money, um, when they are full, but yet being open to take another client when they're not.

So that's kind of how we look at it.

Brett Trainor (25:28.645)
Yeah, it makes so much sense, but it's countered. It took me a long time to realize that because my first fraction, because I started consulting and then eventually moved into the fractional and it was from another fractional chief revenue officer. He doesn't really call himself that, but it was that type of thing. He was full and he needed some help and we had aligned and shared values and how we approach things. So it would make sense. So he was comfortable referring, obviously, with a referral fee into it. And I think that's the other.

really great point that even if you're a fractional chief marketing officer, chief, whatever fractional, anything, it's okay to be friends with other fractional of that exact same thing for this reason. There's corporate tells you, you can't be friends with the enemy inside, right? You're all competing for the same job or promotion out here. There's enough opportunity in the more and the better your network is, even if it's the same role, there's opportunities for folks. So I didn't want to go by without underscoring that because

I think we think we need to do this alone or maybe I can partner with complementary businesses but no, there's power in you. They're doing the same type of thing because you're right, the time's going to come when you need help or somebody else is going to need help and it doesn't hurt. It's not like there's six businesses in the United States that need this. The opportunity is there. So that's a really, really good point. Interesting.

Ethan Bull (26:47.318)
Right. Yeah, there's a ton of opportunity.

Brett Trainor (26:54.189)
One thing I did want to ask you more selfishly, because I'm starting to deal with it now. So you've got the agency site. So you've got students coming into your pipeline, and then you're going after businesses to provide these services too. So how do you, so it's almost, it's not a marketplace, but your messaging almost has to be different. How did you start to solve when you try to go get the folks for your academy that you're going to plug in with those things versus the new clients?

Ethan Bull (27:23.019)
I would kind of push back and say we are absolutely an expert two-sided marketplace. And they are marketplaces from what I've learned over the last six years are really great businesses when you're pushing numbers around on a spreadsheet, but very, very difficult businesses to scale and do well.

That being said, the Academy kind of was secondary. We did do some outreach in the first four years of our business, reaching out to the executive assistant community to gather names of people who may be interested in partnering with us. But frankly, when we need to find an assistant to partner with us,

It's not that hard. And the reason I say that is because we compensate our assistance appropriately based on their experience. We are only taking 20% of the retainer and passing 80% onto the assistant. And that allows them to get compensated appropriately and start their own business and a lot of assistants want to do that. So, um, finding it's, it's more important for us as a two-sided marketplace to stay balanced.

meaning we have the right number of assistance for the number of clients we have, we can fairly quickly ramp up on the assistant side if the incoming prospects are there. And some of that is seasonal, some of that is economic. And currently in end of Q1 of 24, we're still feeling kind of a restriction.

at least from what we're seeing on the ground, and that people are kind of just holding steady in place. So, you know, we are that two-sided marketplace, and then we wrote our book, and that's basically an instruction manual for a founder or CEO on how to use an assistant, or make sure they're getting the most out of their current assistant.

Ethan Bull (29:41.118)
And then in the beginning of 23, that's when we said, wow, we really, we really need to focus on the training side of the assistant world because we have so much of this information offer both on the corporate side and on the quote unquote, working for clients instead of bosses and what that looks like specifically for executive assistant. So we're in our second cohort. Again, running a training company is not easy either. So, um, you know, but.

Brett Trainor (29:57.029)
Yeah.

Ethan Bull (30:10.23)
We're trying to have as much fun as we can.

Brett Trainor (30:12.753)
Yeah, and I want to come back to the book in just a second because you kind of threw that out. I just rewrote a book. So I wanted to dig just for a, but first, do you guys have, is it still just the two of you? Do you have any employees yet? Or is it, are you leveraging contracts? I'm just curious how the business model is. Okay.

Ethan Bull (30:28.938)
Yeah, no, it's all independent contractors. Um, all of our support is independent contractors. Um, we are eating our own dog food. We have an assistant at one third resources for pro assisting. Uh, she's fantastic. And, and, um, so we are doing that, but. You know, that's the other thing.

The benefits of business ownership as a solopreneur, as a solo business operator or a married couple, the IRS considers a married couple a solo business. The benefits for putting money away into retirement and such are immense. And frankly, we don't see a need to bring on employees at this point.

We may in the future, but as of right now, we do not see a need.

Brett Trainor (31:22.329)
I didn't want to go down the path of bringing employees in either, but getting those right partners and fractional makes perfect sense. So, all right. When did you write a book? When did you have time to write a book? And was the whole thought of it just a lead gen type of approach or what was the... When did you write it?

Ethan Bull (31:41.45)
We published the book in 22, but it was a year long process. And we had a publishing partner and I'm a writer. I've written about 12 screenplays. I understand the process. I'm a published graphic novelist. I knew how big a lift that was. And there was this company,

Brett Trainor (31:45.723)
Okay.

Ethan Bull (32:08.834)
previously called Book in a Box and then called Scribe, and was owned by Tucker Maxx, who is a selling New York Times author of basically taking emails that he wrote to his fraternity brothers and created a book. And it, you know, they said, I think the title was I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell. And...

You know, that intrigued us. And, and so we partnered with scribe and they, um, they partnered us with a scribe who interviewed us over 10, two hour sessions, uh, based on an outline that we came up with. And so it's, you know, they pulled all that together and we went through the whole editing process and the book cover and the title and the marketing. And, and it was, I mean, I think. Our book came out.

Fantastic. I mean, it is an instruction manual for how to make sure you're getting the most out of your executive assistant. And just so your listeners know, when we were in New York City, Stephanie supported two different hedge fund CEOs, as well as the CEO of J.Crew, Mickey Drexler. And those two hedge fund CEOs were gentlemen in their early 40s, worth hundreds and hundreds of millions. And one of them was worth over a billion dollars.

And what happens in the EA role in those seats is being a single point of contact. And that's why when we describe the support that we provide through Pro Assisting as filling in those five performance multipliers of business partnership, chief of staff, project manager, assistant slash scheduler, and personal assistant,

That's what she did for those principles. That's what I did for the chief operating officer of a billion dollar ad agency, or the CEO of a billion dollar healthcare network. When you are in those seats, that's the support. But the beautiful thing about being an executive assistant is you can still provide that support to someone who's running a million dollar revenue business.

Ethan Bull (34:14.758)
It's all internal in your brain as an assistant to take what you're doing, use your emotional intelligence, your work ethic, your, um, sense of urgency to elevate the service you provide to hospitality and you can work for a billionaire or you can work for a solopreneur doing a million dollars a year. And, and that is, that's a unique, awesome thing about the position.

Brett Trainor (34:40.141)
Yeah, and it's such a gap too. I think we're talking offline about that. That just the, you know, I had a couple of failed attempts, but it was, that was more on me as I went solo to figure out what I need. I didn't know what I know, so I couldn't communicate. And I also, you get what you pay for in some cases. And really what I needed more was a partner than it was an admin. And...

Ethan Bull (34:57.319)
Oh.

Ethan Bull (35:01.654)
Yeah, no, but the beautiful thing is about where we are is, is there is a huge rainbow of options, you know, and, you know, I come across prospects all the time who say, yeah, I've got a couple of EAs overseas and I don't see the need to change. And I say, that's fantastic because you're, you're saving a ton of money. But a lot of times, you know, I get other prospects coming to me saying, well, like I did overseas and I did.

Brett Trainor (35:07.858)
Yes.

Ethan Bull (35:27.914)
virtual assistants, but the turnaround time wasn't there and the polish, um, and, and personality wasn't there. Uh, and, and I want, I want something better and then that's where we can come in. So there's no, I'm not knocking any other service. I'm, I'm just detailing where we fit compared to everyone else. And, um, but, but a solopreneur being able to find that support.

overseas or through a large VA agency and only work with someone for 10 hours a month. That's great

Brett Trainor (36:02.593)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the chief of staff role intrigues me. I've been on this for like 12 months. I think it's a super underappreciated. And when we say again, kind of like EA can have different means, the chief of staff could be a manage the calendar of the CEO, or it's somebody that's managing all the strategic initiatives of what you have. And I think to your point when I had, which was just fraction or consulting, managed, you know, was working with a couple of clients. That's one thing, but.

I posted something the other day right now, I think I've got eight different revenue streams in trying to keep this organized. And like I said, there are a number of smaller bets at the moment, so it's okay. But at some point, I'm not going to be able to keep doing this by myself. So I think it makes sense. Right. So.

Ethan Bull (36:45.555)
Yeah. Oh yeah.

Well, there's, there's fraction, there's virtual fractional chief of staff as well, but you made the clear distinction that, um, a traditional chief of staff role is someone who. A lot of times has their MBA. Usually it's a two year seat, meaning they're in it for two years and they really are holding the C suite accountable to their KPIs and their, um, you know, 12, 18, 24 month targets and.

has a seat at the table in executive leadership team meetings. When we say chief of staff under the EA umbrella, we really mean being that single point of contact through all aspects of the principal's life, meaning personal business community. And so there is a difference and it is and a lot of EAs make the transition into being a chief of staff, but

There is a big difference between being that single point of contact for everyone to get their questions answered versus are we on track to hit our Q4 guidance? And, um, and, and those are different skillsets.

Brett Trainor (37:53.534)
Right.

Brett Trainor (37:57.797)
basically figure out what you need and then it's going to make it easier when you're going to find that help.

Ethan Bull (38:02.602)
Yeah, give me a call. I'll help you figure that out. And if we're not the right fit, that's totally fine. I love pointing people in the right direction, even if it's not to become a client of ours. It's, it's, it's all about sending good karma out there and helping as many people as we can.

Brett Trainor (38:18.117)
Karma is always going to come back, good or bad, depends on how you want to approach it. So I do want to be respectful of your time. Like I said, I always shoot for 30 minutes and we've gone blown past that. So no, this is fantastic. That's what I love about this because I have no idea where the conversation is going to go most of the time. And this was super valuable, but I don't want to let you go until I get, you know, what's one piece of advice. We've got somebody that's been in corporate for 25 years.

Ethan Bull (38:22.069)
Yeah.

Ethan Bull (38:27.562)
I know, I always talk long, I'm sorry.

Brett Trainor (38:45.957)
you know, what's your piece of advice? Is there sitting, I'm like, I know the grass is greener on the other side, right? You can play it, but you know, what's that advice for folks? Maybe something that you would have done a little bit differently or something not to forget.

Ethan Bull (39:04.151)
I would just say there's a few things. One, there's huge value and consistency and

the compounding nature of doing little tasks over time. And when I say little tasks, it's more along the lines of reaching out to people you know, reaching out to people you don't know, having as many conversations as possible, really getting over that 50 or 100 networking conversations where your story is gonna be honed, it's going to inform what you want your business to look like.

All of that is really important when you're starting out. And the beautiful thing about that is you can start that right now while you're sitting at your job, buying people coffee or drinks after work, or getting on 20 minute Zoom calls to network and pick their brains and all that can kind of happen right now. And then the other thing,

I would say is, is you, and we were talking about this earlier, is you have to take risks and it's, it's a hard transition to make from letting someone else always make the decision on risks and, and you have to turn around and do that for yourself. And we've made mistakes and taken risks that haven't worked out. And we've

taken risks that have worked out wildly successful. And then we've also taken risks where they've broken even and all of it is okay. It's just, it's the nature of business ownership.

Brett Trainor (40:49.037)
Yeah, so good. So, well, Ethan, this was fantastic. I appreciate you spending some time with us. And if folks do want to connect with you, obviously I'll put it in the show notes, but what's the best way for folks to find you?

Ethan Bull (41:02.594)
Pro assisting.com. Uh, you can click the free consultation button and that is me. You are booking on my calendar, uh, and LinkedIn, Ethan bullet LinkedIn, uh, Stephanie bullet LinkedIn. Uh, both our profiles will give you a really solid understanding of our background and, um, you know, hopefully show that we actually know what we're talking about.

Brett Trainor (41:27.505)
And if not, you're figuring it out, right? That's kind of the beauty of it's the next level journey. So awesome. Well, thanks again, Ethan. It was a pleasure to have you on and we'll catch up with you in the not too distant future. Like I said, I love to showcase what others have done and the possibilities that are out there. And I think this was a really good one.

Ethan Bull (41:30.598)
Exactly.

Ethan Bull (41:48.087)
Thanks a lot, Brett.

Brett Trainor (41:49.417)
All right, have a great rest of your day.

Ethan Bull (41:50.839)
You too.