Disrupting Tradition: How Jesse Cole & the Savannah Bananas Changed Baseball- A Blueprint for Escapees

Brett Trainor (00:00.174)
Today, I welcome Jesse Cole to the program. You might know him as the yellow tux guy and the owner of the widely popular Savannah bananas baseball team. I read about Jesse and the Savannah bananas in recent Wall Street journal article, and he has featured showcasing how he was disrupting baseball. So I asked him to come onto the program and talk about how we did it. It was a really interesting conversation with a lot of valuable insights for founders and business owners.

In this episode, we discuss raving fans versus customers, creating experiences at all cost, constant intimation, cutting through the noise, and a whole lot more. This was really insightful and a wild ride. So sit back and enjoy my conversation with Jesse Cole. Enjoy.

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Brett Trainor (01:04.269)
Hey Jesse, welcome to the podcast. I'm fired up to be with you, my friend. No, it's awesome. Super excited to have you here. And, you know, talking a little bit off here that when I first saw your article in the wall street journal, like, ah, he's changing the way you're thinking about playing baseball. I'm like, thank you. Three and a half hour baseball games with nine innings, 32 pitchers. And then I started digging in that, ah, he's just doing it differently. It's all about differentiation. Then.

started read your book and started listening to some of your podcasts. Man, he's got a full blueprint for folks thinking about starting a business or in a business, how to stand out and really kind of separate yourself. So I want to give you a little bit of context. When I first reached out, I know a hell of a lot more about you now than I did then. And, you know, it's really impressive. I enjoyed, I definitely enjoy what you're producing. Well, thank you so much. I guess, yeah, you've gone in the crazy funnel of this bananas yellow tux world. And so good luck.

getting out of it, but it's been fun this whole journey. I mean, 15 years of trying to change the game and change the fan experience and we're learning more every day. That's awesome. So maybe that's a great place to start just a little bit of your background and what you're working on today and then we'll get started. Well, we are always trying to root out the friction, the frustration points for fans and creating a better experience. So every day that doesn't change. And so 15 years ago, when I started with a small little team in Gastonia, North Carolina,

No one was coming to baseball games. There was only $268 in the bank account. The team was failing. And I realized it was because of the baseball was too many long, slow and boring. And then I realized just the experience wasn't remarkable. It was forgettable. And so we started testing things and creating things and then went to Savannah, Georgia and proceeded to fail. As you know, the first few months only sold two tickets and my wife and I had to sell our house and empty out our savings account. We were sleeping on an air bed. We realized we had to go all in on not only just differentiating ourselves, but all in on fans.

And I think the idea, the mission, the thing that I'm always working on is so many people are focused on customers, revenue, sales and growth. I want to change the conversation. I want us to get focused on creating fans. There's a difference. Whenever I talk to someone and I say, what are you a fan of? Immediately they light up. They light up. And you might be thinking of things right now, the listeners may be thinking of things. They light up because they think of that passion, that fire, that excitement, that last time they were either experiencing that, whether it's a product, whether it's a sports team, whether it's anything. And what if.

Brett Trainor (03:21.742)
businesses created that. What if companies created that? What if personal brands created that? And I realized that baseball is losing fans every single day. Major League Baseball is losing fans. Tenets has declined for seven straight years. They average baseball fans in their 60s. We were struggling at first because we were playing the baseball game business. And we're not in that business. What business are you in? But what business are you really in? We're in the entertainment business and we're in creating fans business. And that's where we've been able to change and so fortunate to sell out every game in Savannah, take the show on the road and...

play a brand new game as you mentioned that we're working on creating Banana Ball, which is a faster, hopefully more exciting game for fans. Yeah, it has to be right. Because I showed a little bit offline. I was the prototypical baseball fan. I enjoyed the West Coast package, watched baseball at night. And now it's just I can plug back in. And if you give me the highlight package, I'd be good. But Major League Baseball, I don't think even shares the highlight package, right? Well, think about this, Brett. We're in a highlight world.

Everywhere. We're in a highlight world. We're in a TikTok world. We're in a Snapchat world. Everybody's getting entertainment very, very quickly. And if you don't stand out and provide that entertainment, you're going to get lost in all the noise. It's harder than ever to get lost in the noise. I mean, look when it was all cable. Now we've got all these OTT. Everybody's got a streaming service now. Everyone is competing for your attention. So what are you going to do that's different? And what you have to do is look at whatever's normal and do the exact opposite. And so, yes, I couldn't agree with you more. Three -hour baseball games? Good luck.

The world's getting a quicker, shorter attention span and baseball games are getting longer. That model doesn't work for anybody. And you got to have to look, I think Jeff Bezos said it best with Amazon. He asked, what's going to change in the next 10 years? He said, that's the wrong question. What's not going to change in the next 10 years? He said, people are going to want a wider selection. They're going to want better prices and they're going to want it more convenient. And for us, people are always going to want things faster, more entertaining, more exciting. And so for us, that's what we're trying to battle and figure out every day.

Yeah, I'm curious before we get into applying some of this to startups and building businesses and differentiate, because like I said, I've already taken some notes from my business. But before you got into this, were you creative type? Did this come naturally? Do you think differently or how do we experiment? How do we do things differently?

Brett Trainor (05:26.958)
Or is this something you just kind of learned and figured out this is how we're going to do this? Two things, I think constraints force creativity. So when you have no money, I couldn't pay myself for the first three months when I was 23 years old, took a job. And then when I was in Savannah and we only sold two tickets, we had no money. We had a solar house. When you get in backed against the wall and you burn the boats and figure it out, you're forced to get creative. That's number one. Number two, I think I just questioned. I remember sitting in a dugout. I was coaching right after my playing days ended. I was a baseball guy, loved playing baseball.

And then I was coaching in the Cape Cod League, which was the top collegiate league. And I've seen next to future major leaders. A lot of them actually went on to play major leagues. I'm sitting in the best scene in the house. And I caught myself bored out of my mind. And I'm like, I got the best scene in the house with some of the best baseball players in the world. I'm inside the dugout and I'm bored. And I remember hearing the story and Walt Disney has been a big mentor to me and every book I've read about him. And he came up with the idea of Disneyland by sitting at a park with his two daughters, watching them go on a carousel and say, I wish there was a place.

that kids and parents could have fun together. And I sat down in that dugout thinking, man, I wish there was a way that baseball games could be fun for everyone, adults, kids. And people say, oh, baseball is fun. Well, it's not showing that right now. And I had that vision of saying, what can we do? And I got constraints and I said, we need to change the game we're in. So.

I wasn't unbelievably creative. I had a spark of inspiration. I had a vision and I had no money, nothing to pay the bills. And I had to figure it out and start trying things like dancing players and flatulence fun nights and salute underwear nights and all the crazy things we tried and started experimenting. And I think we can talk and think over and over again about what's best to do. But Herb Kelhurst said it best when he was asked, what's my business strategy in his first five years when he's running Southwest Airlines? And he said, it's called doing things.

You learn by doing. And so, so true. And so we just started doing and you with all your experiences. Well, you know, you can, you can talk and read every book in the world, but isn't started yet testing and experimenting and doing and seeing does the creativity work? That's when it really spurs and creates more creativity. Yeah. And again, I think tying it back to the business, which is so interesting. Actually, some of my favorite guests I've had on the podcast don't come from a traditional business or startup background. And you just think about it differently, right? You don't have the constraints of a normal.

Brett Trainor (07:43.566)
This is how you do marketing. This is how you do sales. This is how we get a customer on board and just taking a different approach to the way you are. And I've definitely been on board with creating the experience, right? I a hundred percent agree that I think experience is going to be a differentiator. Some industries are moving faster than others, but they're all going to get there. And whether it's experience or entertainment, like you're in probably a fine line between the two and you can argue that the difference. So I'm a founder now starting up a new business.

What's the first advice you're giving to somebody that says hey, just go do it. We got it. Yeah kind of what else? What else is some of your wisdom? Well, I think obviously it's very easy to start with a little bit of a vision. How are you gonna make things better? What are you gonna do? And and I don't even want to just say better I always say how can you be the only if you really want to stand out? How can you be the only and we've actually developed a little acronym but for only and oh

own the problems in your industry. What are the challenges? What are the frustration points? The starting point of all innovation is finding what frustrates your customers and doing something about it. If you think about anything, how Netflix started, how Uber started, Netflix was frustrated with the way Blockbuster was. And so we didn't know any better. We said, oh yeah, it makes sense to drive and then potentially not get the movie that you want because they're all out. And then if you do get, then you're going to pay late fees. And that's just the way it always was. Right, right.

And then the same thing with the cab industry. You overpay for dirty cabs. You may not get one. You may get it. They're not going to treat you well. It was a different experience. There was no technology. There was no better thing for the experience. So what are those frustrations? What are those friction points? That is the starting point. And if you're just trying to start a company to be a little bit better, a little bit faster, a little bit cheaper, a little bit err, you're in trouble. So how are you the only? Oh, own the problems. N, create noise. What are you going to do that's really going to make you stand out? You know, for us,

We had to come out with a crazy name, the Savannah Bananas, but not only naming us the Savannah Bananas, we had to say, we're gonna have a senior citizen dance team called the Bananananas. We're gonna have a male cheerleading team called the Mananas. We're gonna have a mascot called Split. We're gonna make all inclusive tickets. Every single ticket includes all your burgers, hot dogs, chicken sandwiches, soda, water, popcorn, everything, everything. No other teams were doing that. So that fit that only as well. How do you create noise in your market by doing something other people aren't doing? Then the L, and this is a Pollyanna and a lot of people think this is, but love.

Brett Trainor (10:00.046)
I don't think many businesses talk enough about love. They're afraid to. So what we developed was the three loves. You got to love your customer more than you love your product. You're a founder right here, Brett, you're thinking, oh, I've got the greatest idea. It's amazing. It's going to do this. You got to love your customer. Why is it dramatically better for your customer? Will they tell everyone the same passion that you have for your product about what you're doing for them? Number two, Elle, is love your employees more than you love your customers. And I think we talk about creating fans.

We want our people to be our biggest fans. So we map the experience for them. How do we do things for them that make them love what they're doing? And then the third L is, this sounds very cheesy, but you got to love yourself. And the reality is, I think a lot of people, founders, they get so obsessed with what they want to do to build. They're not thinking about how are they taking care of themselves, loving themselves so they can be the best for everyone else. There's a lot of gratitude that needs to come with that. Thank you letters, things that we do that help with that. So that's the L. And finally, the Y is why are you doing what you're doing? So only own the problems.

create noise, the three loves, and then why. Why do you do what you do? What is the real impact? What's the difference you're gonna make? And we have so many stories that are families and emotional stories that have happened at our ballpark that I share some in the book and that it brings us back every day to why we do what we do. We're not just a crazy baseball team that plays games in kilts, that has a break dancing first base coach, that does all the wild things. We are about hopefully making that impact that people will never forget that brings people together to feel like they belong and they're a part of something.

And so that drives us. If you're a founder and you have that, I think that's a great blueprint to start is how to be the only. Yeah. And I think you almost have to have it right. Growing up quite a bit in the corporate world, you went to work, you did your job, you got promoted, right? There was never certain companies definitely had some buy -in, but the vast majority of the companies I was, it was about you getting ahead and doing your job. And in the last probably 12 months, I've really come around to the

to the belief of that why is so important. What do you stand for? Exactly. Yeah. What do you stand for? If you don't believe it, are your employees going to believe it? Your employees believe it, your customers aren't going to believe it, and then you're just swimming uphill. 5 ,000%. And do you have stories that back that up? Are you just talking, say, oh, we stand for integrity. We stand for this. Or do you have things that actually really matters and gets to the core? And when I look at our favorite moments at our stadium, they usually involve tears and what we actually call happy tears.

Brett Trainor (12:22.926)
You know, they're tears and happy tears. And I learned that from a seven year old kid. And I'll never forget, there was a game. I do selfies every game with the fans and just pictures and it's crazy, people love selfie. So I go through the crowd doing selfies and there was a kid, Cameron, he's jumping up and down, small seven year old with glasses, holding up a sign with pictures of the players. And he goes, Jesse, Jesse, can I have a selfie? And I go up to him and I said, I said, what's your name? He goes, I'm Cameron. I go, Cameron, how old are you? He goes, I'm seven years old. I go, Cameron, can I do a selfie with you? And he goes,

Yes, I go Cameron, you know what the selfie is going to be on Facebook. He goes Facebook. And I took the selfie with him. And he was all excited. And I walked down and I said, All right, let's let's do what we do. And fans first, I went down to the state of the field, got an autographed ball and an autographed bat from all the guys. I brought it down. I got down to a knee and I said, Hey, Cameron, guys wanted to bring you something. And I dropped down. And all of a sudden tears started coming down his face. And I go, Cameron, are you okay? Are you okay? His mother starts crying. I go, Cameron, okay, he goes, Don't worry. Don't worry.

These are happy tears. These are happy tears. And I've never heard that terminology, happy tears before in my life. But we had a seven year old kid and his mother crying because of a simple little gesture that everyone on our team does, not just me, everyone. And it's like why that's why we create moments like that. When he left the game, he has something I'm sure it's still in his room, that ball and that bat of something he won't forget. That's why we do what we do. And every business has that. So you have those stories and those things that share that. And I think that's a real fundamental thing that you need to start with.

not just to make more money. You want to make more money, good luck. You'll be out of business pretty quickly. Yeah, yeah. 100 % right. And, you know, I think it's again, such good advice in the sense that build it. You know, you said it so much more eloquently than I do. But, you know, I always do. So what is the problem you're solving for the customer? How do you do it? How do you do it differently? And you have the proof or that the talking points around it. And, you know, the one thing I talked founders all the time, different is better than better. And,

You can't tell a different story than shame on you, shame on me and sharing with you a little bit offline that even within my business, I am doing things differently. But if nobody knows it, then shame on me for not getting it out and sharing it with folks. You know, this is such a good point when you just jumped on it and different is better than better. The hardest question that I ask any person on any business I talk to and I asked what makes you different. And I'll tell you, most people get stopped in the tracks.

Brett Trainor (14:42.35)
They don't have that finding answer. And I'll tell you, I was like, all right, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. So I actually went on our website and you go to About Us, after you see the Savannah Band story, the documentary, we have all the things that we are doing different from the fact that we have only one ticket. It's all inclusive. The fact that we have no ads at our ballpark, we're an ad free stadium, which is crazy. The fact that our players do a choreographed dance every night, the fact that we have a break dancing first major, we list all these. And again, if you want to talk about it, we had to figure out how to market and promote and...

and create fans without any resources. We had no money, you know, still we've always been bootstrapped. But when you create all these things that make you different, who does all the marketing for you? Your customer, your fans. 100%. So how can you be very clear on what makes you different? Hey, we're a circus and a baseball game breaks out. We're trying to be the most fun team in baseball. And, you know, it's funny when we took our one city world tour, which is ridiculous, one city world tour. When we when we travel down, the news was saying the world famous

the world famous baseball circus, the Savannah Bananas are in town. I'm like, I love that. I want to trademark that. And you know, it's funny because it's like world famous baseball circus that literally says how we are different in a baseball and circus. You never put those together. So when you immediately when you think of circus, what do you think of Brett? Yeah, elephants, animals, crowds, the big top. Yeah, the big top. Yeah. You think of and then somebody think about acrobats. Yeah. Any of those fire. Like we've had all that.

And so when you think about it, the circus, you think about this whole, all these things coming together, whether it's animals, whether it's performers, whether it's talent, putting on a show, when you think of a circus, we don't call our things, our games, games, they're shows. So again, what is that image? What are you owning in people's minds? And that, I think that's so important. So what makes you different? And the better the answer, the more success you'll have. And whoever says most in the least amount of words wins. Yeah.

It's hard to do, by the way. I've been playing with that exercise you were talking about. It's hard because, yeah, as I share in the book, Fans First Entertainment is the name of our company. Fans First Entertainment always is what we do and how we do it. We're trying to own Fans First. But now as we evolve, and again, Fans First is who we are, and that's where we're going. And that's where we're working on this next book. But Baseball Circus also conjures up two things with Fans Too. So really, it's trying to hit home, Matt. And it's not easy. But once you get it, it really makes you go fast. And fast is important to try to make an impact.

Brett Trainor (17:00.334)
Yeah. And the one thing I'll just tie off on that is I think even with, if you do have and develop those fans, right? Cause there's customers and fans and I forget who wrote the book about raving fans and where you're trying to get. And we should all be striving to it. Cause what people don't get is you get those fans, they're your business development pipeline, right? They're going to tell five, 10 other people about unbelievable this company is. And your pipeline starts to fill up where if you know, there's so many companies, at least the ones that I've worked with historically.

You sell them, they become customers, you provide some level of service or support, but you're not really investing in them or enabling them to get the most out of what you're doing. And that's just a missed opportunity on with your business. A hundred percent. And think about the language too. You know, people say, all right, you know, we built this many subscribers. We built this many customers. How many conversations are in it? How many fans do you have? Which there's a big difference. There's a big difference. Customers are transactional. They come and go, but fans.

never leave. If you think about it, unless you really, really mess up, fans never leave. And so how many fans do you have? And I think so many today in the social media where we're focused on so many likes, we're focused on how many followers. Love is better than like. The great, great article by Kevin Kelly, you know, 1000 true fans. It's so much better if you can have a hundred people that absolutely love you, love you, than having thousands that kind of like you. People kind of like Circuit City. People kind of likes

Toys R Us, people kind of liked all those companies that are not here anymore. But people love Netflix. People love Chick -fil -A. People love Yeti. People love some of those companies. And those are the ones that are really going to last. Yeah. So maybe circling back on that, is there a way to measure, right? Do you guys measure your fans versus your customers? Is it the one -time person not a fan yet? How do you determine who's a fan of the band? That's a great question. And I think we've struggled with that.

We believe every game is someone's first game. Every day is the first opportunity to create a fan. However, what goes against our metric, for instance, everything we try to look at, how do we eliminate frustration? How do we eliminate friction points? How do we entertain always? How do we experiment, engage deeply, and empower action? The five E's, that's what we talk about a lot. Surveys, questions, net promoter score. To me, the act of actually asking for that is another frustration point of friction.

Brett Trainor (19:22.798)
And so I get it and I'm so wrong on so many levels here and I understand everyone's listening. Well, you got to know, you got to know. Well, if you continually ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, are you asking for them or are you asking for you? And often you're asking so you can promote. I'm at 90 % on Net Promoter Score. I'm doing this, I'm doing this. So, you know, we're very aware if people are reviewing us and they're reaching out to us and we're very aware are people continuing to send comments that are unsolicited.

the impact you made. Hey, when you sent that to my son, when that player, number 15, walked up and delivered a rose to my little girl in the crowd, you have no, she still has the rose, even though it's been months and it's dead, but it still makes an impact on her. We share those stories. We share those messages. Is it the right, is it right? No, but I'll tell you at this point, every single day, we get an email, a message from a fan about something that someone on our team did to create a special moment.

To me, that's showing that we're creating more love because people will complain very easily, but how many people will go out of their way to send a message saying, wow, what you did for my son, my daughter, my grandmother, my grandfather, that's showing that we're building love every day. And to me, right now, that's enough for us. Yeah, that's a great point because I think if people are just, it's gotta be the polar opposites, right? Either they're super.

impressed, we're happy with something you did or they're super frustrated, but somewhere in the middle, they're just not going to say anything, right? So if you're not getting any feedback, then that's probably not a good sign. Yeah. Maybe just hitting expectations. Yeah. Shep Hyken said it best, fine is the F -bomb of customer experience. If you're fine, you're in trouble. And I couldn't agree more if you're in the middle. I'm not saying go be bad, but don't be just fine. Look at every single part of your experience. That's kind of fine and say, how do you make it remarkable? And I think that's what we really

We were terrible at this in the beginning, but we had to really map every touch point. We said, is it remarkable or is it just fine or forgettable? And most people just say they have one great moment and if they even do, but they don't think about the first buying on the website or the first email or the first invoice or the first interaction or the last time they interact with you. It's just, hey, this is the way it's always been done. Or this is how I've seen invoices. This is how I've seen voicemails. It's all the same. There's such an opportunity.

Brett Trainor (21:42.19)
And so we've had to get better. I think, yeah, and which great segue, because I was going to ask you about because the one thing you call a couple of things that normal gets normal results, which is kind of fine as average. But then you talk about first impression and last impression, right? That that's a focus of you want every first impression to be spectacular and the lasting impression be what they they take away. And I do think we we don't pay enough attention to that.

Right. We look at the entire interaction, but you've only got one chance to make that first impression. And right. If you screw it up, good luck getting those folks back. Yeah. It's a bigger brand conversation too. You know, I never thought too much about brand. I mean, it's funny. I'm looking, you're looking at the guy in a yellow tuxedo. He's got the Savannah band as who literally has banana everything at the stadium. Like people think we are all in on brand, but yeah, I mean, I think once we realized that every touch point for us is about how do we make baseball fun and the experience more fun and how do we entertain, then it made it very clear.

all the touch points. It's like, you know, right now, it's funny I have this with me because I did a keynote earlier, but this right here is a, a make and bake in urinal cake and they make and bake in our rival. And so we literally in the men's bathrooms put make and bake in your old cakes. Our fans are actually peeing on our rival. Like because our brand is fun, we're a lot like we got permission to do that. You know what I'm saying? Because our brand is fun. We have permission to do Dolce and banana underwear with a giant banana on the videos on this.

Yes. So it makes it easy to hit those touch points. And so when you're looking at first impressions, last impressions, we are constantly thinking, what is the most fun thing we can do? Because that fits who we are. So yeah, when you buy a ticket from us, you get a video sent payment confirmation. And we change it up every year. We've had the staff dance. And I mean, the one I remember is that the first thing you get when you buy a ticket was, I said, congrats, you just made the best decision of your day.

Right now as your ticket order came in, a high priority siren went off in our stadium and our bananiacs rushed to the ticket laboratory to produce your tickets. And then a banana nanas slowly walked in and hand selected your tickets and placed them on a silk pillow. We raised the silk pillow up in the air and sang, na, savanna, nahi, to celebrate the birth of a new fan. And then we slowly walked your tickets all the way down to our vault underneath the stadium where they're being watched in max insecurity. They're now ready for you to go bananas. Like that was, that was, so that's a video because that's a first impression.

Brett Trainor (23:59.822)
And everyone thinks like, they've already bought tickets. What do you need? Or they've already bought your service. They've already bought your product. Are you kidding me? You have an opportunity to make a fan there. You have an opportunity to create a remarkable, create a wow, create something special. So that same thing. That's why we call every fan that buys a ticket and thank them. That's why we send a playlist of music to listen to on the way to the game, which you better believe. Can't stop the peeling and holla back girl where this is bananas. You better believe those songs are on the playlist. It's those touch points that seem like they don't matter. They do matter. And even if they matter to one person.

You know, Andy Stanley said it best, do for one what you wish you could do for many. And so if we hit one of them at a right time, at the right moment, we've created a fan and more than anything, we've made a difference in someone's life. And that's why we do what we do. Yeah, no, and that's so good. And I think the other thing to just make sure the folks that are listening know that your players are not, these are high quality, really good players, right? So you're putting a good product on the field. This isn't just like gimmicks come to the stadium, have fun. It's the experience.

with good baseball, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, that's we are very fortunate. We've won more baseball games, stand -abans, over the last five years than any team in the league. But we don't talk about the baseball. We don't think about the baseball. We focus on fans first in the experience. And what happens is when you are fortunate to provide a great culture, great atmosphere, and a lot of fun, people play better. So if you're talking to founders, you're talking to startups, you're talking to anyone else, it's very simple.

If you're enjoying what you do around people that you love being around, you will perform better. If you start your day and you're not enjoying it, you're in front of, like for us, and most teams are in front of small crowds, they don't have the support. If you don't have your cheerleaders around you, you don't have encouragement, you don't have the support, you will not perform better. So what do you focus on first? And I learned this from Walt Disney, control the controllables, focus on what you control. There's a reason why he created Disneyland because he can control the opening shot. People coming down Main Street.

He could control the entire experience, which he couldn't control in a movie theater. You know, it could be dirty, it could be sticky. He couldn't control that. So that's what we focus on is how do we control that experience and deliver something that hopefully will resonate. Yeah, no, it definitely is. And, you know, the other thing I liked about your process is it's a series of small steps, right? It's a journey and you're trying to get to. So following that right, the next step, now you've got two teams or it's on the road, the greatest show on the road.

Brett Trainor (26:21.614)
You know, man, at some point what you guys are doing, let me take a step back. So two parts to this question. One, you talk about your future fan, right? So you've got today's fans, but you've got to be thinking about who's tomorrow's fans and how do we reach them? That man, it's just a constant game or an evolution. So do you see it more of an evolution or an escalation of the experience that you're providing? Does that make sense?

Yeah, I mean, I heard future fans and then escalation or break it down a little bit more so I can try to get excited. Yeah. So, so today's fan, let's leave it. I'll get to future fans in a second. So with today, every day, the same fans are going to come to the stadium and they're going to experience and you guys are really good at changing it. But, you know, how do you keep in either improving that fan experience, making it different or what's next? Or is it just, it just keeps going, right? No, I'm scared out of my mind. Okay.

Fair enough. And I mean that. I have a huge fear of not only settling, but a fear of irrelevance and a fear of not mattering. And I believe that nothing matters more than making people feel like they matter. Like that's really important. And I feel that it's very easy for a business like ours or any business to not matter anymore as the world is moving so much faster and people want new, new, new, new, new. And if you're not creating new or something memorable, you're in trouble. So.

Yeah, I obviously we created this new game, Banana Ball, which has created a lot of buzz, but we still have a college summer season. And, you know, as we're creeping up to that now, and I'm not sure when this is airing, but the reality is it's going to be, it's a nine inning traditional baseball game, which I know fans don't love. Right. People could say, Oh, I love it. But I'll watch you leave in the sixth or seventh inning and I'll see that we have half our crowd left at the end of the game. Uh, you can say you love a baseball game, but you know, not many people when, when pre COVID we're leaving great movies in the middle of movies.

saying, oh, I love that movie, but I've seen enough or you know what? That was the best concert. Oh man, yeah, I left halfway through, but really enjoyed it. Like you don't do that. Yet in baseball games, you leave early. So for me, I'm constantly, constantly thinking about what are we going to do to do something new, create and not just escalate. We can't just iterate. We have to at some point innovate. And there's a difference between iteration and innovation.

Brett Trainor (28:37.55)
Iteration is just getting a little bit better. Innovation is doing something. You don't know how the answer is, what's going to happen. You don't know the result. You don't know what's going to, you have to do those experiments. And so I wish I had a defining answer, but we are constantly trying to think about, yes, actually going back to your previous, the future fans. People are going to want things faster, more exciting to be entertained. So what would it take to create a baseball experience where people don't want to go to the bathroom because they don't want to miss something. Where they don't want to go to the concession stand because they don't want to miss something. I'd actually probably hurt our per caps.

Because I want to keep people so entertained that they don't want to miss something. And maybe it's not sitting. I don't think the future of sports is being a spectator sport. I actually don't think the future of any business is being a spectator. I think people want to feel like they're a part of something. And so how do you give them options, decisions, make to feel ownership? And so, again, I mentioned Disney a bunch, but Disney, you get to control your experience. You can say you got to go around the park, choose where you want to go. You get to pick it in advance. You get to have those options. So those are the questions. I think everything starts with a question and we're questioning what if.

What if we did this and then hopefully start testing those questions and assumptions? Yeah, but I think that's so important because you know, history, I just had a podcast and my history is littered with companies that were no longer relevant, right? They were Sears, you know, Montgomery Ward's both fit into that thing and they didn't keep innovating and they went away because they were no longer relevant. They rested on their laurels. You know, literally, I mean, we're probably one of the only teams that sold out every single game. I would say most, most.

Probably owners presidents would take a step back and say, man, we're doing great and pat themselves on the back. And I'm okay. I think there's levels of celebration that's important, but you have to continue to push and do things that may not work. Like that's Jeff Bezos said, our success is a direct function of how many experiments we do per year, per month, per week, per day. He said it best. He's always thinks that it's day one and we can think what you want to think about Amazon, but no one's been more innovative in the last 25 years than them.

And they are growing leaps and bounds because they are doing new things and venting on behalf of their fans, their customers. What are you doing to vent on behalf of them and not be settled with the way things have been? And so that's the hardest thing I have to work on on a daily basis. Yeah. But I think it's such a good, so important. I know we're talking more startups and growth, but you can build it into the DNA early like you guys have done that said.

Brett Trainor (30:54.158)
Every day we're thinking new ideas. There is no bad ideas. And you actually want to hear all the bad ideas, right? Because if it's a bad idea, then I even want to hear more about what you're thinking. Yeah. Talk to your team about what experiments are they doing this week, this month, this quarter. Don't just talk to your team. What are your sales this week, this month, this quarter? Our merchandise right now has become a seven figure brand. I never would have imagined it. All over the world, we're growing at now 200%, 300 % a month. And we just had a merchandise meeting this morning. And we were talking, our president was great. We were saying, all right, next month, what are we doing? He goes, guys,

I'm focused on next fall. Our president said this, he goes, what are we doing next fall? Listen, we're doing things this summer, the brand's doing well, but what are we doing next fall when we become a little bit more irrelevant in the sense that there's no games, there's no banana ball, what are we doing? And when you're thinking six months, a year out, when trying to how you innovate, that's what we're having to learn how to do. Even though we could be very, oh my God, we should have the biggest month in history, people from all over the world are buying our merch. What are you doing six months, a year out? And commit to it now.

Yeah, I think that's such so few companies do that. And I've been involved with them. You like to think you're innovative and you're thinking beyond, but we barely running the day to day, let alone thinking three months, six months, 12 months out. What's going to be different? Well, how much time do you give? This is a great topic because Jeff Weiner, the president of LinkedIn, he gives himself think time in the schedule. He was the president, CEO, and I mean, more for many years. He gave himself think time every day in his calendar. So he literally the CEO of LinkedIn, you know, there's Reid Hoffman. Then there was him who was running at the president. He gave himself every day. So we are so

busy putting out fires, doing those things that are in front of us, instead of actually taking a step back, going for a walk and thinking about six months a year. I write every morning and it's often about the future. It's often about where we need to go and what we're doing, not just, oh, I got to send this email. I got to do this today. You do all that, you're in trouble. And most people end up doing it because they get so much in their world. And then all of a sudden they're looking like, what's happened the last six months?

Yeah. What can I cut out of my day? And it's usually the forward thinking and not the what's happening. Yeah. They go, no, well, you know, they're scared of having dead time. I feel like they're not working. Everyone thinks busy is a badge of honor. Oh, I'm so busy today. I killed it. I did so much. I was like, no, the most successful people are the least busy. They are. No, I think a hundred percent agreement with that. So, man, I could talk to you probably for two hours, but I do want to be respectful of your time. Anything else you want to share that we didn't cover you think would be important?

Brett Trainor (33:08.078)
I love good conversations that are spirited and are thinking about more of the future, what needs to happen. So this is definitely on that. So I'm open. If there's anything else you're curious about, I have a few minutes, but whatever, I've enjoyed this and I really appreciate the support. All right. And this one I did not ask you ahead of time is what is one thing you, Jesse Cole, would highly recommend? It could be personal, it could be professional. Got a little bit of a glimpse, I think, based on our conversation today, but I'm really curious what's...

What is that one thing you would recommend to anybody? I mentioned a little bit the three loves and I said about love yourself and how do you do that? And for me, one of the biggest game changers was winning the morning, win the morning. And Hal Elrod, I know I mentioned in the first book, The Miracle Morning, that changed for me. And I used to start every day with other people's priorities. We often do, probably nine out of 10 listeners a day. They may turn around, they may look at their phone, they may go look at something, but they're not focused on themselves. And now, fortunately, the first thing I do in the morning is I write. I write a thank you letter every single day. I write 10 ideas.

every single day and I go for a run and listen to a podcast. And, you know, when I listen to a podcast and I read, sorry, and I read as well, that's like getting my vegetables. I create before I consume. So I write some things and then I start consuming reading and listening to a podcast and that's getting my vegetables for the day. And so that's one thing that has been such a game changer. It's to put yourself first. And I have two kids and a wife and when I get up early, I do it. And by six 30, I'm done.

and I'm ready to take on the day because I've already won the day and been able to put myself first to be able to think right, feel in a good spot and not just go and go where the fire takes me. That's been a big game changer. Yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm probably get a little more disciplined about some of that, but I did start to carve out the early morning and just say, Hey, this is the block time. No meetings before nine. Yeah, help it. But it is about the content, the podcast, all those other things. When the day.

Yeah, it helps. And the one thing I did want to mention before I do let you go is you had mentioned either was on the podcast or somewhere about rocket fuel. Yes. Winner. I see you as the visionary, but I think actually Mark was on the podcast, you know, middle of last last year. And I went, boom, what an eye opening experience, right? You need both. You need somebody that can execute with the visionary. And once you find that that partner, it's so important. So.

Brett Trainor (35:25.038)
Every every Walt needs their Roy and every Roy needs their Walt. And yeah, I'm so fortunate that yes, I've been the visionary, but I have an amazing visionary integrator integrator. And I was gonna say implementer. I'm like, that's not it. It's it. I used to implement. So I threw it off. Yeah, you threw it off. It's integrator. But yeah, I think that's so so key. And but I think it's so good just to have that mutual respect for someone and you need someone to work with and be able to be respected. We have our same page meetings every single week and we make things happen. And it's it's great. I'm glad you referenced that because that's been a big game changer for us. That's awesome.

Well, Jesse, thank you very much for spending the time and I'm sure that people want to check out what's the best place to track you down other than the Savannah bananas. And I mean, definitely your podcast. I highly recommend your book. I know another one's coming out. So share with the folks the best place to track you down. I hang out a lot on LinkedIn, but yeah, I was told you search yellow tux. You'll find me. So any time you'll search yellow tux again, I have, I own that. I enjoy it. I wear it. It's my uniform, but yeah, LinkedIn hang out and.

You know, I give away my cell phone, I give away my email, I give away anything, you know, if I can help in any way. So you'll find me, you'll find me everywhere. You know, you made the mainstream when you're in the wall street journal, right? They do that article on here. So it was awesome. Well, Jay, thank you very much. Thanks again. I'd love to check back in with you here in a bit to see where the Savannah bananas are going next. But I think this was such a good, um, episode for folks to think differently about their business. Yes, you got to have the product, you have the solution, but.

You know, think bigger, think early, think often of how you're going to be different. Thanks a lot, Brad. This was a joy. All right, Jesse, take care. Thanks.