Building Success: Shannon Carriere's Transition from Corporate HR to Solo Business Owner

Brett Trainor (00:00.878)
Hi Shannon, welcome to the podcast.

Shannon (00:03.59)
Hey Brad, I'm so excited to be here! Thank you!

Brett Trainor (00:06.264)
No, it's absolutely my pleasure. yeah, I'm happy we were able to get this connected here pretty quick because I love your story and we've talked more than a few times and we should have hit record on those conversations. So I'm like, you know what, let's get this scheduled and we'll share it with the audience. And kind of before we get into your escape journey, why don't you share with the audience just a little bit about what you're doing today, who you work with.

Shannon (00:19.54)
Yeah.

Brett Trainor (00:35.16)
and then we'll go back in time a little

Shannon (00:38.366)
Sure, absolutely. So right now I'm doing a combination of fractional and project management in the HR world and people. And I work with owners and CEOs kind of in a company growth mode who have grown organizations before and they understand how people mistakes can impact and have really direct financial consequences if they're not handled in an early stage.

So we focus on that and the work itself looks like building infrastructure, something that's gonna drive business results through human performance is the idea of the work itself.

Brett Trainor (01:18.48)
And how long have you been solo?

Shannon (01:22.108)
I have officially been solo for two years. my gosh, is that two? Two and a half. Yeah.

Brett Trainor (01:26.498)
Okay, what's impressive, time's gonna fly by, how precise, I mean, precise, how clear you are on who you wanna work with and the work you wanna do. I mean, it took me two years just to kinda even figure out what I kinda wanted to do and I still think I'm working through it, but it seems like you figured it out pretty quick where, I don't know if it was where your strength was or where you like to work.

Let me ask you, so where you're at today, is this where you started two and a years ago or have you kind of morphed into

Shannon (02:01.428)
Yeah, oh heck no, lessons learned 100%. And yeah, I think it's something that probably knew instinctively at the beginning, because if you know anything about HR, you know it has a reputation and people have certain belief systems about it depending on what their past experiences have been. And I found that in working with groups who were trying to grow their organization early on that maybe hadn't done it before,

is that it was very easy to say, we don't need that, or we don't need that now, or that doesn't make sense, or that's too costly. However, those who have done it before know that it costs a lot less right now than it will when we grow 50 additional people or X million amount of dollars later because things get out of hand. And so I want to say it's kind of the path of least resistance. I want to help people who want to get results.

Brett Trainor (03:01.134)
Yeah, I think that makes so much sense and smart, right? Because again, there's what we do, we don't need a ton of customers. So why not focus on the ones that get it so you don't have to educate them? Yeah, no, I completely. All right, I'm going to take us down this first rabbit hole before we even go back in journey. And just get your perspective on HR because over my 25 years, I worked with a lot of really good people.

Shannon (03:13.416)
Mm -hmm. All

Shannon (03:19.22)
Okay, let's do it.

Brett Trainor (03:27.626)
in that space and they were partners, you know, for the most part with with me and in the business and these things, but it just seems in the current corporate culture, I don't know if HR is taking a turn and they're asked to be do something different with these layoffs and or is it just, you know, kind of the way, you know, the environment feels right now. I don't know if that made complete sense, but it just seems like HR, I don't say they're getting a bad name or

Shannon (03:27.742)
Mm -hmm.

Brett Trainor (03:54.722)
you know, everybody's warning, hey, HR is just protecting the business. They're not, they're not your friend. They're not your, your partner. And just curious your perspective. You don't have to burn any bridges if you don't want, but this curious your take on this right now.

Shannon (04:00.724)
That's a typical thing to say,

Shannon (04:07.22)
Yeah. Yeah. No bridges to burn here. think in just the way that sales is a department and has a reputation or marketing is a department and has a reputation, HR is a department and has a reputation and everyone touches it. So that reputation is just a broader reach than anything else. And there is no one or 10 or a hundred HR people that are the same.

They don't have the same experiences. They haven't worked with the same kinds of companies. So I invite everyone to step back from that perspective and realize it's very individual. However, one generalization I will play into with it and my experience as an HR professional is that it's very rare that HR is driving any of the decisions that you see happening. However,

most HR professionals, because they take their roles very seriously, will take the heat for everything because they believe that's the right thing to do. And I believe over time that has developed into they're just all terrible when I think there's more nuance to it than

Brett Trainor (05:23.418)
I think you're right. And again, I thought maybe I was just on the right side of the equation of the folks that I worked with and it's not. But yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you guys are still out there in corporate, right, you gotta don't be nice to your HR folks. They're just the execution piece of this a lot of the time. anyway, all right. So let's go back in time. You did message or mentioned some lessons learned and we'll get to those as we go through the journey. But maybe give me just an overview of what your corporate

Shannon (05:29.042)
Got lucky,

Shannon (05:38.376)
You

Brett Trainor (05:53.166)
career was and your last role before you made the decision to go solo or the corporation made the decision for you to go solo. So maybe just those two, a little background on the career and then take us to your last corporate role.

Shannon (06:07.12)
Yeah, I had a really eclectic career HR wise, really all over the place, truly grateful for it. But I can't say that it was very linear, necessarily. I started in hospitality, I did some work in financial services, heavily in learning and development. Before I had an opportunity to jump into, I don't know, more HR proper, if you will.

where I went into an organization that didn't have a lot of things in place and I had the opportunity to build them. And I think that's where I really got hooked on the work because I saw how much impact something like that can be from a, just the simple idea of taking some pressure off managers so they can do the work that they were hired to do. Right. If you're, if your salesperson is managing their people all of the time, they might not be managing their sales.

And I saw that right away. I could put processes together that would take that away. And so that's why I loved it so much. But I'll tell you, I don't think, and it took me a long time to figure this out, but I don't think I ever fit in. And it was really most of, I did not have easy work. And it wasn't because the work wasn't enjoyable and I couldn't do it. It was my relationships with executives.

that I really struggled with. And I think it had a lot to do with challenging status quo, asking questions when people just wanted to move on and just desiring for us to focus on results versus, I don't know, waiting out the budget or whatever else was happening. And I think that I started to realize when I started to really dig into it, I started to realize that, you know,

Sometimes they're asking me to do things that were really counterintuitive to who I was. And, you know, I maybe would not admit that it was that it lacked integrity, but there were pieces of it that did. There were processes that didn't feel right. They might ask me to be quiet about something that I felt transparency was the appropriate solution. But ultimately, I just I didn't belong, right? I just wasn't there.

Brett Trainor (08:20.312)
Yeah, it's so, it's so interesting and good for you to take that path. Cause I think back, hit some of those crossroads as well, but instead of, you know, fighting back and getting out, it was more conformed with not the, just the process, right? mean, cause earlier in my career, I can think about the progression and where you rock the boat a little bit and you question this doesn't make sense. Why are we doing it this way? And

over time as the years and then the decades go by just keep it in the box. Don't rock the boat. Get your job done. Push it. And even though, right. I again, I came to that realization a little bit long later than you did, but it was the same thing. And I think a lot of the folks as you see, you know, in our community have hit that point. We all hit it at a different point, but you know, it's interesting you said that, but you were able to figure it out right before you put another five years, 10 years into that.

that type of work in the big corporates.

Shannon (09:18.12)
wish I could say it was a really clear picture for me, but even though I was realizing that, I still felt stuck in it. didn't feel like, I mean, I never ever saw myself as owning my own business. In fact, people said it to me along the way. I was like, no, like that's just not me. That's not who I am. But if I don't belong there and I don't belong here, where the heck do I belong? I don't get it, right?

Brett Trainor (09:27.118)
Yeah, interesting.

Shannon (09:47.22)
I think it took some of the push at the end. So I went through some turmoil, I think it was probably late or mid -2021, because I had started a new job in late 2020. I was so excited about it. A few months in, they said, just kidding, we're going to be acquired. So then I was thrusted to trying to figure out, and I went through a long job search process. And then I found a job that really quickly didn't work

Brett Trainor (10:06.742)
Okay.

Shannon (10:17.18)
And I was, and I was starting to have conversations about, maybe I could try this. Let me talk to somebody. And I, met with a consultant who really, there were actual butterflies in my stomach thinking about the possibilities. Like, you know, I have to take control of my own fate because I can't rely on the market. What if I do this? What if, what if I get into this? And I was so excited. And yet I still took another job because I, I couldn't see myself.

Brett Trainor (10:43.406)
Yeah.

Shannon (10:46.49)
out of that. But I think if anything, I am so grateful for that job, because it was all the things, all the reasons that I didn't belong in corporate. it was it. It was it. And and so a year of that. And once I dropped that, it was I was I was ready. I was ready to

Brett Trainor (10:59.032)
final push that you needed to get out.

Brett Trainor (11:09.973)
I want to go back to one thing you said, because I think a lot of us, me included, get to that point where we think it's either corporate or you have to start a company or open a restaurant or a cafe or start a Google. Because I had a couple of entrepreneurial ventures over the course of the 25 plus years in corporate, but I've seen either none of them worked out where I could stay out of corporate. But those were like building a company multiple times.

I just didn't realize the option of solo was out there until, you know, like I said, I've gone through the process over the last four years from solo consulting to fractional to, you know, some agency and those types of things that it's really kind of flexible, didn't have, I didn't realize that it was there. I, I'll truthfulness. I don't think it really was became more common until two or three years ago. Right. It was more viewed as a freelance can't get a job.

you're on Fiverr or something like that. yeah.

Shannon (12:10.58)
Right. Or it was a step down. you got it. You have to do this because you

Brett Trainor (12:15.982)
Right, now that's such a good point. Yes, all right, so let's go. You're incorporating everything is wrong with this job. Are you starting to think, all right, I'm going solo, this is exactly what I wanna do, or were you more like me that said, hey, this isn't working, I'm out, and I'll figure it out. Hindsight 2020, I would have gone the other way. that's all right, so where were you? What was that crossroads like?

Shannon (12:16.914)
different world

Shannon (12:40.892)
Yeah, as that ended, I was terrified, I think. I was pretty terrified. I was, and I'm gonna call it fortunate. Like I wanna say that I hit the pavement and I was so amazing at building business, but I wasn't. I was fortunate enough to connect with an agency who let me start out. And thank goodness because

Brett Trainor (12:59.341)
We can go with

Shannon (13:08.838)
I didn't have a sense of business development at all. And so I went into this agency and then I got comfortable again. was like, well, this is comfortable. don't have to worry about anything. And then I'm like, wait a minute, maybe a few months in, said, this is going to end eventually. Contracts don't last forever. I need to be realistic. it wasn't actually to a year after that. A year after I started is when I actually committed to an LLC.

when I actually said I'm going to do this. And I started building my network and engaging and talking to people. And I was, I'm going to say a mess at the beginning of that part of the journey because I'm not sure that I was prepared to be public, like to be a public, confident human. didn't have it.

But after starting some of that networking journey, I mean, people were pushing me. If I were in corporate and decided to do that, I don't think I could. But once I was exposed, if you will, like I think there's things that happen in you that you never believed that you could do that you just can now that you're able to put yourself out there with. But I didn't know was in me. But after putting myself in the situation, I found out a lot of cool things.

Brett Trainor (14:18.392)
Yeah.

Brett Trainor (14:32.974)
Yeah, I like a couple of things you said there too. One is getting comfortable. One of my favorite new expressions is getting comfortable being uncomfortable. I mean, it's kind of the world we live in now. And if you're comfortable being uncomfortable, you're going to find that that success a little bit quicker. I did the same thing when I left corporate. I don't I didn't tell anybody or very few people knew for the first couple of years. And by the way, that's not a good way to grow a business is not letting people know.

Shannon (14:59.474)
Yeah.

Brett Trainor (15:00.844)
I get it if you're still in corporate, can't, you gotta be more stealth with it. But yeah, I think there was still that stigma that I was carrying around that, he's going solo. couldn't hack it in the corporate world anymore or doesn't want to start a real business. so I just, you know, it just hindsight again, I would have done that differently. And like I said, once it opened up and

Then I knew there was more of me out there, right? I would say it seemed just over a year ago that I started to realize that there's actually a lot of us out here that are fighting the same battles, but we're all doing it by ourselves, which is kind of silly.

Shannon (15:35.442)
Yeah. And what if I fail, right? All these people that know you, I mean, it's an interesting thing because I've gone out and done this and been more public with who I am. But I still feel like the same frightened child inside when I'm doing

But people who knew me before go, wow, you're doing such great things. you succeeded anything you do. And I'm like, you have no idea what's happening in here. But I do think that people see you differently, and we have to have more faith in those who have been with us all the years and

Brett Trainor (16:07.288)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brett Trainor (16:15.34)
Yeah, and confidence in ourselves, right? The imposter syndrome is real. it's again, I tell my timeline for folks is I look, it usually takes a few months to get some level of success, whether that's your first customer by yourself or two customers, depending on the type of work that you're doing. After about a year, I was comfortable that I think I can do this, right? I had that belief that I could do

But it wasn't until year two where I'm like, all right, now I know I can make money. I figured out how to do this. Sometimes it may not be the most ideal, but now I know I'm not going back. then years three and four has just kind of grown and pivoted and got more focused on what I want to do. And, you know, it's some of the things. So like I said, I think if people have the thought that, Hey, I'm going to quit and then be super successful in two months and replace your income, not realistic.

Shannon (16:44.85)
Mm -hmm.

Shannon (16:59.358)
Mm -hmm.

Shannon (17:06.012)
It's magic.

Brett Trainor (17:09.4)
but you can absolutely have success and you know, a year out, you probably can't figure out how to make that, that money back, but it is a lot less time if you're, if you're organized. Right. So anyway,

Shannon (17:21.14)
Right, but in those first, I think also in those first six to 12 months, you realize your priorities are different than you thought. Like you got out because of the pain, but that pain's gone. There's a whole new set of pain, but there's something about it that's more tolerable because I don't know if you just, you have control over it. You have the ability to, it's your pain.

Brett Trainor (17:32.354)
Yes.

Brett Trainor (17:44.385)
It's your pain.

Shannon (17:47.589)
And then you start to realize there are things that you want you didn't know that you wanted before because you can.

Brett Trainor (17:53.922)
Yeah, I'm curious if you felt this way because it was when I left, it was I just want to make more money than what I was making in corporate. But then I discovered the time. Just I had forgotten how valuable time was. And then once I discovered time, like, well, if I want to be healthier and try to get wellness. So it just became this overall balance of things that I didn't know that I wanted until I got a taste of it. And then I get mad at myself. I'm like, why did I wait so long?

Can't go back in time so I can only look forward. But yeah, when you said that, the things that were important when I left are very different than where they're at right

Shannon (18:32.018)
Right. I think for me, because of my relationship with corporate, I just wanted to prove that I could do it without them, that they didn't win some sort of sick twisted way.

Brett Trainor (18:42.118)
Exactly. Such a good point. All right. So now that we've meandered a little bit, let's go back to after let's say you're a mess. How did you get straightened out those first couple of months? Was it the first customer? How did you find your first customer? And did you have a set offering? Give us a little bit of where you were early on and then we can kind of mature with you.

Shannon (19:02.746)
Yeah, right.

As I had mentioned that my first group was with an agency. I had connected with an agency that was working with things and really connected there. My first client outside of that, right? I decided, hey, I need to do things. This is gonna last forever. My first client outside of that came from networking. So yeah, I engaged in a handful of groups. I started meeting people and I stopped being awkward about meeting people.

Brett Trainor (19:26.626)
Good.

Shannon (19:36.712)
I think the one thing I struggled to get over at the beginning was that, you I thought you were supposed to be shy about selling, like you're not supposed to be overt about it, but there's a big gap in between shy and overt, right? There's somewhere in the middle where you can just be proud of what you're doing and be willing to talk about it and not be weird and slimy. And so once I figured out that was possible,

I could run with it because I just, wasn't afraid of talking to a stranger over a virtual coffee and just being that, and just being that person that I knew was there, but for whatever reason, I just didn't think was possible. And I noticed that people were more receptive. And I was like, wow, all of these people on virtual coffees are way nicer than I expected. This is great. Let's do

Brett Trainor (20:13.784)
Yeah.

Brett Trainor (20:27.842)
Yeah, people generally are happy to help right where they can and cause you're not competing for the same positions. There's more than enough opportunity for everybody. And so I'm curious when you're looking for that first gig outside of it, you know, one of the things that I did, I was way over indexed on how tight the offering need to be and what it was going to be and how I was going to do it. And I'm like, you know what? It's

Shannon (20:30.962)
Mm -hmm.

Brett Trainor (20:50.36)
I don't want to it doesn't matter, but having the flexibility going into conversations, knowing it, it was just so much easier. And I still spend a lot of time with newbies on that aspect because they want to have the perfect offering and they want to do, I'm like, you can convince me otherwise if that works. That's why I'm kind of curious to see where, you know, kind of the early days of offerings to maybe where you're at today and how that's kind of changed.

Shannon (20:59.251)
Mm -hmm.

Shannon (21:13.395)
Yeah.

My journey started with hourly work. And I think that taught me a lot. think that a lot of companies, because they operate right now with an hourly or salary mindset, that's just an easy way to process. Right. And so a company who wants to hire, say, a fractional, they want to hire them. Well, I'll get you give me your hours. Right. But it's really not that like as a fractional, I can do a lot of work.

for a lot less time. And all I'm doing is hurting myself. If I cut those hours down, I can do that in an hour, great. Well, somewhere else, or if you hired somebody to do it, or if somebody in house was doing it, would take much longer and waste a lot more time. So I learned really quickly that hourly was not the path for me and who I, what the kind of things that I offer. So now I do.

Brett Trainor (22:02.892)
I

Shannon (22:12.072)
I have three types of offerings. One is a hotline. So it's like an emergency line that I can, that's really a retainer, but it's a small low level retainer for those who really don't need onsite work, but also things come up and they need somebody to trust. I do project management. So just something that needs to get done. We can go in and do, and then I'll do a retainer fractional long -term.

And I think what's interesting is I've heard folks say, well, you start with the retainer side, right? For me, it's the opposite. So because of my experience with corporate and being with various executives where I thought they were a certain thing when I interviewed with them and it was a completely different thing when I left, I want to start with project management and hotline work. And if those relationships are solid,

then I'll turn it into a more retainer or long -term fractional engagement.

Brett Trainor (23:11.426)
Yeah, I like that. I've really, again, the good thing, the good and the bad of my journey is right. I went from management consulting at the end of my career to solo consulting, which is definitely more of a fixed time, fixed fee type of an approach into the fractional, which then got into, you know, it wasn't hourly. like to drag, the owners like to move it into, well, how many hours am I getting for this? Even if you don't get there, they're still in their mind. There's how many hours are getting in.

Shannon (23:26.132)
Mm -hmm.

Shannon (23:35.208)
Right? It's always the question.

Brett Trainor (23:39.5)
Then I realized that I was really limiting how I can help. Cause some business that's why I love your hotline idea, right? It's, Hey, you just need a little bit of help right now. I can provide it. You need, you have some team members that need some either coaching or mentoring. can provide it. So I think if you go in with that approach, Hey, I know what I solve this type of problem in your case, it's for growth businesses that need some infrastructure. I can meet you where the business is. And I find on the lower end or the smaller.

deals in the sense like the hotlines and those. It's actually more of premium pricing. You're getting paid more per hour than you are with the longer term deal. So I'm more than happy to spend. Yeah.

Shannon (24:20.132)
It's like an insurance policy, right? You pay a lot of money for insurance and don't always use it, right? That's, but you want some of that. I would encourage, go ahead. I would say I would encourage anyone as they're building their pricing model and they're getting the question about how many hours, that they're changing that conversation to what are the results. Here are the results I can provide because that allow you to price in a way

Brett Trainor (24:29.25)
Yeah, and actually you... Go ahead, sorry.

Shannon (24:48.808)
that functions best for you and what you're able to put in time -wise.

Brett Trainor (24:52.588)
Yeah, it makes sense. And again, if we have too many small deals, it's tougher to manage, but not really. I mean, just think there's, like I said, there's enough small businesses that, and again, I love the insurance. I'm starting to use that in my sales pitch sometimes that, if we can get a small engagement together, I'll get to know your business. And then when things go sideways or you really need some help, I'll know exactly where you're at versus if you don't partner with anybody, just have somebody come in and do

one -time project, then you have something else. You're to have to bring somebody and completely educate them on your business, get up to speed, waste a lot of time. So it's almost an insurance policy for the business owner to say, just we can do a small engagement now and I'm here when you need. Hopefully you don't need me, but if you do, I'll be here for you.

Shannon (25:33.212)
Mm -hmm.

Shannon (25:41.128)
And if you have to do that, if you have to start from scratch, you could be losing a lot more money out the door in the long run because you're creating more damage by the time taken.

Brett Trainor (25:51.5)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And curious too from a pricing standpoint, because the one, again, I use this a lot is, right, you can't, you couldn't afford to hire me full time. And, but looking at it from a fractional or another, it's, you get all the value, you get all the good stuff without the overhead or the unnecessary meetings, right? It's, you're just paying for the quality, which is the output. Sometimes it's, there's stuff that has to go on in between, but.

Shannon (26:12.5)
Mm -hmm.

Brett Trainor (26:19.346)
seems like a much better deal for both the business and for you or me or anybody that's going into this solo. But yeah we still have a hard time kind of grasping that approach and I'm not sure. It just seems like a logical fit from both sides so I'm not sure why it hasn't clicked a little better yet but curious what you see in

Shannon (26:40.71)
okay. It's hard to speculate about the real psychology of that, but there is something psychologically safe in having an employee and it's just their job to do things. And if they don't, it's not really your fault and you don't have to engage with it. But if you've hired a consultant or somebody fractional to do work, the expectation is results. You are moving forward. unless you really want it,

Brett Trainor (26:45.324)
through.

Shannon (27:09.588)
Unless you really want to move forward, maybe that's not the choice that you want to make because it's a lot easier to push things off and to slow things down when you have an employee. There's a lot more excuses to build.

Brett Trainor (27:20.462)
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, the one, I don't know if it's an analogy, but the way I explain it sometimes is when you're an employee, the company has all the power, right? In return for the salary, you're gonna do everything I say, you're gonna work on what I want you to work on, you know, the times, et cetera, et cetera. And like a consultant or more of a freelancer, it's transactional, right? This business needs XYZ done, you can do XYZ, it's good.

But when you start moving into the fractional and I would think even like some of the hotline and stuff, it's more of a partnership where both sides have a say in it, right? You don't like it, you can walk away. They don't like it. And it just, again, it makes for better, well, from both sides, That's why I'm so optimistic this is the future. It just makes too much sense. You're right, we need to get through the psychology of it a little bit, but it's gonna happen.

Shannon (28:08.242)
Mm -hmm.

Shannon (28:14.502)
We need to help train our CEOs and owners what partnership looks like because it's not a threat on you, your ego, your knowledge, your capabilities. It's an opportunity to make your business better and get the pat on the back you deserve because you just owning and doing everything. One, you're going to get overwhelmed and not do it. Right. And people are going to respect that you're smart enough.

Brett Trainor (28:40.152)
Yeah, yeah.

Shannon (28:43.102)
to know that others are smarter in their specific areas. Smartest CEOs are the ones that hire the ones that are smarter than

Brett Trainor (28:48.716)
Yeah, there's a great book. I don't know if you would like

know that and they know right it's it's not it's who not how right and I don't know if you've read that book but I love that book it opened my eyes it's like it's exactly right go surround yourself with who's that are specialties in the areas you're not let them figure out how to do it because they like to do it right most of the time as business owners we don't focus on the things because we don't like it or we're not good at

Shannon (29:11.441)
Exactly.

Shannon (29:17.116)
Yeah, I had read a book recently that says, you know, the CEO is it's your job to figure out the what you want to happen and hire a team that figures out how to make it happen. You should not be involved in that. You've got other things that you've got to do. And so if we can train more CEOs and owners to feel that way, think, I think business will skyrocket. It's got so much potential.

Brett Trainor (29:38.446)
Yeah, I'm 100 % confident we're doing this. I don't think big corporate's gonna be able to turn that boat around, but I do think small and mid -sized companies have a big, massive opportunity if they can embrace this. All right, so let's, let me, I think so. Less overhead, mean, because if you think about it, because one the I studied for a while was the one person business model,

Shannon (29:52.294)
and create some serious competition for corporate in that method. So, yeah.

Brett Trainor (30:04.942)
They're doing million dollars with one employee, right? Some are now doing $2 million with one employee. If you take some of those concepts that they're using and apply it to a small business, right? Some of the small businesses I worked with that were, you know, two to four million in revenue had, you know, 20 plus employees. I'm like, this isn't going to work. I appreciate you want to bring all these folks in, but that's not a good ratio anymore in the sense of, of how this is going to work. So I think.

Shannon (30:23.092)
Mm -hmm.

Brett Trainor (30:32.418)
the solo business, you and I are starting to help figure out what the future business model looks like. And it's much more of like an ecosystem than it is the way companies are structured today. So let's just need more and more more business owners, which we'll get on. It's just, again, it's slowly, but we're getting there. All right, so let's go to, all right, now you've

Shannon (30:45.374)
I love the thought of it that way, in the ecosystem.

Brett Trainor (30:59.916)
got things figured out, right? More so you're starting to get comfortable with everything. How did you get to that next step, right? Where you can, you you're fairly confident. Like I said, we all have imposter syndrome. How did you start getting those next customers? Was it referrals? Was it the same networking? And maybe talk about how much time you spend networking versus actually doing the work so people can get a sense of, you know,

Shannon (31:13.748)
Sure.

Brett Trainor (31:28.276)
Are you doing this three days a week, one day a week? What's kind of your cadence for new business?

Shannon (31:31.326)
Mm -hmm.

have really relied on networking. And the reason why that works for me is, as I said before, I'm already working uphill from a non -trusted business. And so for me, it's the building of relationships that help people see that I'm not one of those HR people or whatever it is, however it is that they see it, right? And for those who don't even believe in HR in the first place,

Brett Trainor (31:56.14)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shannon (32:02.194)
I'm not a threat to them. I'm not a threat to their business. I want to help them get better. And I'm not going to impose myself or make barriers and rules that don't exist. So I can only get that in discussions. So networking is really good for me. And I also like to meet with small groups of local owners of companies, because when we can get in and talk about that little stuff that's challenging.

you know, compliance is always a really good open conversation because everyone has to deal with it and no one wants to learn it because it's boring and doesn't always make sense and, and, it's unpleasant. So I find that if I can make that an easier view, if I can, if I can help break it down and take the chaos out of compliance, that often helps me build trust. And frankly, I'm working a long game, right? That's what the hotline is about. I'm working a long game that right now you don't need anything.

There may be a moment that you do and we'll get there if that's the right thing.

Brett Trainor (33:02.286)
Yeah, no, I like it. think that's again more and more folks that I meet with and talk to we're all in it for the long game, right? And we couldn't see my finishing that's been corporate for you know, 20 years. There's just no way but you know, again, I want to control my time. I want to work on the things I want to work on and how much I dedicate to it. It'll be my control. So I think we're seeing I definitely see quite a bit of that. So alright, I've got a couple more.

Shannon (33:09.469)
Mm -hmm.

Shannon (33:26.649)
And I genuinely want to help people, right? So that way they're not messing up right now, even if they can't, you know, pay a lot. That's okay.

Brett Trainor (33:35.894)
Exactly. Hey, we again, because we can be more efficient with our time. We're only charging for outputs, right? It's, it's, it's a good model. So, all right. The one I get asked a lot and I needed to do a better job on the podcast, getting information is tactically, you know, what did you do in the early days? Did you set up an LLC? Did you have a website, LinkedIn page? Can you kind of talk about what you did is kind of part one of that question. So the tactical and

Let's go into some advice, right? What would you have done differently and what advice are you giving to potential solopreneurs at this point?

Shannon (34:10.813)
When I really started to launch, I started with technology, things to make it easier so I didn't have to do a lot of work. I got some work with invoicing. As I mentioned, I was doing time. So I wanted a time software that would help me work through it very easily and quickly and let me use multiple jobs at once. So that was the big piece for me. And then I got an LLC.

And I'm only just now working on a website. I just didn't feel the need for it yet. I wasn't there. I made up my own little logo, you know, months ago, but now I'm working on a real one to put something in front of people. But I really heavily relied on LinkedIn as a place where people could go to look for that credible source of information.

I've taken some LinkedIn courses from people that I trust that have helped me understand it better. But I would say from a marketing perspective or just from a homepage perspective, that's where I have landed. And having a great profile does make a difference. It has sucked me into buying things that I didn't think I would either. So I'm hoping that will do the same to others.

Brett Trainor (35:26.466)
Yeah, no, I'm with you. It's because I do get that question a lot. I'm like, do I need a website? Do I need? I'm like, you honestly don't, right? I mean, you look at the corporate escapee, what we've got growing. I don't have a website for that yet. It's in process. We have a community, but there's not a website yet. And even what I was doing with my solo work, it relied heavily on LinkedIn because that's where people are going to validate how did you actually do this with these big companies you said? And I'm like, yeah, it's there.

Shannon (35:54.054)
It is. And people will say that, well, you have to have a website, otherwise you're not a legitimate business. Maybe five years ago. But this is this is a different place. I I can't even think of the last person whose website I went to, you know, after seeing something on LinkedIn, because I didn't need to. got everything I needed right there. It's pretty easy.

Brett Trainor (36:16.482)
Yeah, honestly, the only time I do that is if the LinkedIn page didn't answer my question about what they do. So but then most of the time the websites not telling me either if you can't tell me clearly in LinkedIn, then then we can move in. I will say that I've God.

Shannon (36:23.185)
Mm -hmm. Like, okay, I gotta dig in further.

Shannon (36:30.812)
Yeah, do think from a website perspective, when you get to the stage where you can't handle all the incoming requests, it's a nice place for filtering. Or if you've got a product, I think that if you're truly productized on a few things, then the website is a great move.

Brett Trainor (36:44.855)
Yes.

Brett Trainor (36:53.166)
sense. Yeah, I think when I tell people with the LLC, you don't have to but I think once you're 100 % committed that you're going to do this, or at least try this, then it makes sense and every state's different. So this is not legal advice or any of those things. But what I've heard from a lot of people more recently, as they're starting to go through this journey is, when I got my LLC, it just empowered me, right? It it flipped a switch and said, All right, this is now real. I have my own company. I'm like, I'm like, you know

Shannon (37:07.753)
Yeah.

Shannon (37:19.934)
This is real.

Brett Trainor (37:23.182)
go with it 100 % it's because they're not that expensive and there's nothing wrong with having them. like I I used to say no, you don't need it until you get serious and get the momentum and now I'm like, if that's that milestone for you, go do it. You're all in. Yeah, that's awesome. All right, I do want to be respectful of your Yes, that's where I was going.

Shannon (37:37.084)
Mm -hmm. Take

Yeah. And then as you asked about advice, guys, I just have one piece of advice. Yeah. So don't do it alone. You can. You can do it alone. It's possible. But don't, because there are so many people out there at the same stage as you or just a little ahead of you that you need to connect with. And by doing that, it will put you in a much stronger position. And not using a network, not getting

It's like taking the fire escape when you've got an escalator. Like it makes no sense. Like do good for yourself. Use your peers. Use the people around you. I could not have made it or done what I have done without those people.

Brett Trainor (38:27.5)
Yeah. And it's such a good point. one of the, I forget, I think it was Ken Shamrock. He's an old UFC fighter, but somebody had asked about right training or how he is successful. I'm getting to that, why this ties in. Cause he said, I always work with three different types of training partners. One that's before me trailing behind that, you I can help bring along somebody that's my speed, right? We have really good sparring sessions.

and then somebody that's ahead of me because I'm learning from that person that's ahead of me. So if you're thinking from a networking standpoint, it's the same thing. Somebody slightly ahead, somebody you can go down the wall with together and then start to bring some folks behind you that you're a little bit ahead of because absolutely there's powers in number and don't do it alone and I did it way too long by myself. So that's such good advice.

Shannon (39:00.532)
genius.

Shannon (39:20.332)
I hope everyone takes it.

Brett Trainor (39:21.014)
So all right, Shannon, I'm sure there's going to be some folks that are going to want to connect with you after this. What's the best place for them to track you down? mean, I guess LinkedIn, but you tell me.

Shannon (39:32.254)
Certainly not a website, because I'm just not there yet. But we're building right now. So yes, LinkedIn is the best place to connect. If anybody is in the escapee group, I am on the Slack and happy to chat with anybody there as well, whatever makes

Brett Trainor (39:50.766)
And the shameless plug, if you're not in our escapee group, what are you waiting for? There's more people like Shannon. There's a whole, there's 600 other people like us that are in there going through this journey at various stages. So, so if you're listening and you're curious exactly come join us. Education's free. I'm working on the education free, the support's free. Um, all it takes is just a little bit of time.

Shannon (40:00.53)
Yeah, we'll be your community.

Brett Trainor (40:14.796)
All right, Shannon, thank you so much for spending some time. really appreciate this. I'm glad we finally hit record on one of these conversations and we'll bring you back. I always tell people we're going to, we'll do a couple months or maybe in a quarter or so we're going to bring some folks back and just get an update. We'll see if you actually launch that website that you're going to launch. And if I get any questions from other folks, I'll pass them along as

Shannon (40:37.94)
That sounds great. Such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Brett Trainor (40:41.461)
Alright, have a great rest of your day. Thanks Shannon.